X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm18-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([216.39.62.65] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.10) with ESMTPS id 7240278 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:38:35 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.39.62.65; envelope-from=echristley@att.net Received: from [216.39.60.170] by nm18.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2014 15:37:59 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.161] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2014 15:37:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1027.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2014 15:37:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 345373.80499.bm@omp1027.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 86317 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Oct 2014 15:37:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1414510678; bh=bqtzJxegdnesiPp3g2IGyjJL0IpHfNDZIYZlUB3y8y4=; h=References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DVlBvrZPPqwYriNwSDv2oyP1lLyTTdWocUXIupUDarwaPg5Cr+Te5B0BcrJsULwRT/8HS6hkel+T2GWL3gtBIx1Pc9xDb2zEjZA7REGabvgNcOD0Rz9fr8kIX+qxJaxEX1XERqsT4fPazZarQRraIvVkMnTW7WMA2oxx0ZbC88o= X-YMail-OSG: IVJrHSsVM1nC2Tl4NT0FQv_ES_H7IJRDj6mwGPva8G_yw.f KftHQk7Xq.5RhPwtlyUi5.vWeMzmzYMLtNPyn7FPYtb7W9QoyESUsZdiKVV0 ELGIpG6.kTkAwXLUjgfobafwgpRVXwlMlDy01_AcRzHwaO.Y8g0bjUmF9uiU 4YeSoXOvctytdDqzue4nZ5uREL1CYVlzsqBkycT0m5siKmM7rGre1PvoN0RE kqrTzGrrVHjWcyCtieLtfw6t0zpTFA6c.cp4GP17LDg.OOrmK0OFXu8kFBul rdmpotTsJB0t1KL5K8hDFoYx3P2oXMo1eesjnVQwY_QbdqMWCQeZHSByYsUl xIfFoj4ADQygPi72KjH9G4gYD2XKwB6wsZwEW9BNbBDJnnnzW1NJBMklu0gz DB64QTgGRK5zmdqQpf.QIfSaGwMl9QiIK58gqBldMdJTPQsE9HLxF_jrVNBE dsZwxog5vw1quzUWuP0pOqezVq.BfYvDHJkiXSOLiG8Kyf81WrEMzhnUwsHm a1tU7erDsrJnQBzb7ygg75.iiifpi0Igv5dk8VjfrJqjPrsHbOz.kjtlFlam 9mjvaN5tZFJLv96V8oYr9xyN7SeSia6vcP.Y29o8CuDrcOHyc8fjYrizJYOc z3ZwBOI2ObYg1USayAP3GVrtTWQpq2Nse.OQohR6ELfP88TnEYPQ7ooqChgk _4KEnYi3rPZu14ATJ1KdsaK4LRZJOt7iEK_jGHqqG Received: from [70.39.176.68] by web181606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:37:58 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,Q2hhcmxpZSwgY291bGQgeW91IG5vdCBwcm92aWRlIHJlZHVuZGFuY3kgd2l0aCBhIG9uL29mZiB2YWx2ZSBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSB0YW5rcz8gIElmIG9uZSBwdW1wIGRpZXMsIHR1cm5pbmcgdGhlIHZhbHZlIG9uIHRvIGFsbG93IGZ1ZWwgdG8gZ3Jhdml0eSBmbG93IHRvIHRoZSB0YW5rIHdpdGggdGhlIGdvb2QgcHVtcC4gIFJlZHVuZGFuY3kgaXMgcHJvdmlkZWQgYnkgYSBwdW1wIGluIGVhY2ggdGFuay4gIEJvdGggcnVuIGR1cmluZyB0YWtlb2ZmIGFuZCBsYW5kaW5nLiAgSWYgb25lIGRpZXMsIHN3aXRjaCABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.733 References: Message-ID: <1414510678.97737.YahooMailNeo@web181606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:37:58 -0700 Reply-To: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: electric fuel selector valves To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1387227393-2023167852-1414510678=:97737" ---1387227393-2023167852-1414510678=:97737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Charlie, could you not provide redundancy with a on/off valve between the tanks? If one pump dies, turning the valve on to allow fuel to gravity flow to the tank with the good pump. Redundancy is provided by a pump in each tank. Both run during takeoff and landing. If one dies, switch to the other tank and run it low, then open the valve to get fuel from the tank with the bad pump if you haven't found an airport already. On Monday, October 27, 2014 6:46 PM, Charlie England wrote: On 10/27/2014 4:55 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: This is the type that I'm referring to: > > > >http://products.pollakaftermarket.com/item/fuel-selector-valves/light-truck-6-port-motor-driven-valve/42-302 > > > > >On Monday, October 27, 2014 5:50 PM, Ernest Christley wrote: > > > >Is anyone familiar with electric fuel selector valves as used in automotive applications. I'm trying to figure out how they operate. Do they select one line when power is applied to a solenoid type plunger, and then the other line is selected when power isn't applied? Or does a pulse of power switch them back and forth? If they maintain the currently selected tank when power is absent, it seems to me that this could remove fuel lines and a leak prone selector valve from a lot of cockpits. Furthermore, the 6 port models look like they could be plumbed easily to handle return lines. > > > > > The ones I've seen actually use a motor to move the valve (think screw jack), so they will remain in last position. Reading your linked item indicates that it works the same way. 'Traditional' engine guys have avoided them in the past because they're plastic and they require power (and they are an automotive product, so they can't be reliable ;-) ). They are probably worth considering, but I'm seriously looking at switching to in-tank turbine pumps with automotive style PWM control; no return line needed. Then tank selection would be with a switch on the panel instead of a valve. Downside is that for total redundancy, I'd need 2 pumps in each tank. They are dirt cheap (<$20 each), but controllers are around $75 ea and switching gets pretty elaborate if there are more than 2 tanks. Charlie ---1387227393-2023167852-1414510678=:97737 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Charlie, could you not provide redundancy with a on/off valve between the tanks?  If one pump dies, turning the valve on to allow fuel to gravity flow to the tank with the good pump.  Redundancy is provided by a pump in each tank.  Both run during takeoff and landing.  If one dies, switch to the other tank and run it low, then open the valve to get fuel from the tank with the bad pump if you haven't found an airport already.



On Monday, October 27, 2014 6:46 PM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


On 10/27/2014 4:55 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
This is the type that I'm referring to:

http://products.pollakaftermarket.com/item/fuel-selector-valves/light-truck-6-port-motor-driven-valve/42-302


On Monday, October 27, 2014 5:50 PM, Ernest Christley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Is anyone familiar with electric fuel selector valves as used in automotive applications.  I'm trying to figure out how they operate.  Do they select one line when power is applied to a solenoid type plunger, and then the other line is selected when power isn't applied?  Or does a pulse of power switch them back and forth?  If they maintain the currently selected tank when power is absent, it seems to me that this could remove fuel lines and a leak prone selector valve from a lot of cockpits.  Furthermore, the 6 port models look like they could be plumbed easily to handle return lines.



The ones I've seen actually use a motor to move the valve (think screw jack), so they will remain in last position. Reading your linked item indicates that it works the same way.

'Traditional' engine guys have avoided them in the past because they're plastic and they require power (and they are an automotive product, so they can't be reliable ;-)  ). They are probably worth considering, but I'm seriously looking at switching to in-tank turbine pumps with automotive style PWM control; no return line needed. Then tank selection would be with a switch on the panel instead of a valve. Downside is that for total redundancy, I'd need 2 pumps in each tank. They are dirt cheap (<$20 each), but controllers are around $75 ea and switching gets pretty elaborate if there are more than 2 tanks.

Charlie


---1387227393-2023167852-1414510678=:97737--