X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Stephen Izett" Received: from mail-pb0-f43.google.com ([209.85.160.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6906793 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 27 May 2014 09:12:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.43; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f43.google.com with SMTP id up15so9228450pbc.2 for ; Tue, 27 May 2014 06:11:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to; bh=lNJ7kloPBbTNUsAe03L+F4pygfVu3BB1eZ36I5fTQhU=; b=apFZQXIP+l1vqrNyRZtQYVLztIRka950BgTPJCJzRsgpavBDlmZ8TJO3N+IMu8zJC7 /KsDcen0bhYsQQiIUS77DdQarhZyG2m98fjpY68cuScb9wqaOAGDOfJRVQeIy9GatUkj kCF9JfxzmjheEhQeKN6IEtxhMpd12CRVq8LpfBgutlHZfhGnVAlYCzKp8tjjcmAu2IIC lrQIjZPObRXJOiCuK0VZQQu7moYvnEB0pLnFrdrlZ7EuKhshydmjojg0sPA7wuN9xDgQ YwJmFNxmdfHcP/3Jd6wjaiDWw3jIS9vq0AIhccH6gmr8s1jL+sOE66bv0k5hXWVBe25q P/Eg== X-Received: by 10.66.148.98 with SMTP id tr2mr36567954pab.33.1401196315095; Tue, 27 May 2014 06:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.12] (124-148-198-196.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.148.198.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bq4sm23328400pbb.60.2014.05.27.06.11.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 27 May 2014 06:11:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Stephen Izett Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D891C860-B097-42E7-881F-1BF1DF1EB649" Message-Id: <503AD510-C3C9-475B-9D7D-7BCFF4926276@icloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re [Fly Rotary]: start Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 21:11:47 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) --Apple-Mail=_D891C860-B097-42E7-881F-1BF1DF1EB649 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks very much Jeff The engine is a Renesis 4 port, it was one of a batch of Mazda=92s test = engines that a number of us here in Australia purchased. We have done nothing to it internally as yet. We have an expansion tank being welded up and when we install it = hopefully this weekend we will then pressure test and compression test = to ascertain primary engine health parameters. Cheers Steve Izett On 27 May 2014, at 8:53 pm, Jeff Whaley = wrote: > Steve, attached is the Hanover cooling system diagram =85 note all the = cooling elements (radiator, hoses, filler bottle) are completely full of = glycol (green); only the expansion tank (approx 1 litre, with stant = lever cap) has room for air, filled only about 1/3. The location of the = expansion tank is shown higher than everything else in the diagram but = can actually be located lower; what is important is the connections be = as shown, i.e., highest point of saturated cooling system connects to = bottom of expansion tank, expansion tank is only 1/3 full and this is = where you install the pressure cap. Attached is also a photo of my = swirl-pot/expansion-tank; note it is not the highest point in the = system; the bottom connects to the highest point (water pump outlet); = the top is connected to an tire valve for pressurization and also the = system pressure gauge. Not shown but later installed, is the rear iron = (closest to prop) was T=92d into the TOP port of the expansion tank with = 1/8=94 restrictors in hose to remove air from the engine block. > =20 > Gurgling sounds are not good; there are two o-rings per iron, per = rotor housing. The inner is the combustion o-ring and the outer is the = water-jacket o-ring. If you are getting gurgling sounds then it is = possible that coolant is getting past the compression o-ring into the = combustion chamber. This can be checked easily but removing your = exhaust, turning over the engine by hand and watching for signs of = coolant being expelled when the apex seals pass over the exhaust port. = If there is a milky film on the dip stick then it is possible that = coolant is also getting past the coolant o-ring at bottom of engine and = leaking into the oil sump. Either situation if true constitutes an = engine tear-down and rebuild. The Bruce-T video is what I used to = overhaul my engine/s. > =20 > This leads to the question: =93Where did your engine come from and = what was done to it prior to installation on your project=94? > Jeff > =20 > From: > "steve Izett" > Subject: > start > Date: > Sat, 24 May 2014 07:57:48 +0800 > To: > Rotary motors in aircraft > >=20 > > Hi guys >=20 > We are just finishing our Glasair SIIRG with a Renesis 4 port. > Started her up after finishing main wiring and she burst into life. = (without prop at the moment). > ~70psi oil pressure oil and water temps building. Ran it for 5 mins or = so before shutdown not wanting temps above 200. > We worked out that if we lifted the tail up we could get some more air = out and water in. > I have some questions/concerns: >=20 > 1. Gurgling sound emanating from oil filler/breather with white = substance on the oil dip stick. Concerned water may be getting into = sump. What are the symptoms of o-ring failure? So much to learn re = rotaries. >=20 > 2. If we do need to tear it down, any great sources of how to go about = it. Remembering years ago seeing Bruce T had a video? >=20 > 3. We are working on an expansion tank design and wondered if someone = could share the important elements of a good cooling system design. = Looking at photos of other aircraft I=92ve seen lines to expansion tanks = from A. Rear iron port. B. Radiator tank top. etc. A. Is height of tank = significant? B. Volume required? C. How much air should be left in the = tank? D. Cap style?. >=20 > So much appreciate having this list. >=20 >=20 > Steve Izett > Perth Western Australia =20 > =20 > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you. -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --Apple-Mail=_D891C860-B097-42E7-881F-1BF1DF1EB649 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Thanks = very much Jeff
The engine is a Renesis 4 port, it was one of a batch = of Mazda=92s test engines that a number of us here in Australia = purchased.
We have done nothing to it internally as = yet.

We have an expansion tank being welded up = and when we install it hopefully this weekend we will then pressure test = and compression test to ascertain primary engine health = parameters.

Cheers
Steve = Izett




On = 27 May 2014, at 8:53 pm, Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Steve, attached is = the Hanover cooling system diagram =85 note all the cooling elements = (radiator, hoses, filler bottle) are completely full of glycol (green); = only the expansion tank (approx 1 litre, with stant lever cap) has room = for air, filled only about 1/3.  The location of the expansion tank = is shown higher than everything else in the diagram but can actually be = located lower; what is important is the connections be as shown, i.e., = highest point of saturated cooling system connects to bottom of = expansion tank, expansion tank is only 1/3 full and this is where you = install the pressure cap.  Attached is also a photo of my = swirl-pot/expansion-tank; note it is not the highest point in the = system; the bottom connects to the highest point (water pump outlet); = the top is connected to an tire valve for pressurization and also the = system pressure gauge. Not shown but later installed, is the rear iron = (closest to prop) was T=92d into the TOP port of the expansion tank with = 1/8=94 restrictors in hose to remove air from the engine = block.
 
Gurgling sounds are = not good; there are two o-rings per iron, per rotor housing. The inner = is the combustion o-ring and the outer is the water-jacket o-ring.  = If you are getting gurgling sounds then it is possible that coolant is = getting past the compression o-ring into the combustion chamber. This = can be checked easily but removing your exhaust, turning over the engine = by hand and watching for signs of coolant being expelled when the apex = seals pass over the exhaust port.  If there is a milky film on the = dip stick then it is possible that coolant is also getting past the = coolant o-ring at bottom of engine and leaking into the oil sump.  = Either situation if true constitutes an engine tear-down and = rebuild.  The Bruce-T video is what I used to overhaul my = engine/s.
 
This leads = to the question: =93Where did your engine come from and what was done to = it prior to installation on your project=94?
Jeff
 
Hi = guys

We are just finishing our Glasair SIIRG with a Renesis 4 = port.
Started her up after finishing main wiring and she burst into = life. (without prop at the moment).
~70psi oil pressure oil and water = temps building. Ran it for 5 mins or so before shutdown not wanting = temps above 200.
We worked out that if we lifted the tail up we could get = some more air out and water in.
I have some questions/concerns:

1. Gurgling sound emanating from oil filler/breather = with white substance on the oil dip stick. Concerned water may be = getting into sump. What are the symptoms of o-ring failure? So much to = learn re rotaries.

2. If we do need to tear it down, any great = sources of how to go about it. Remembering years ago seeing Bruce T had = a video?

3. We are working on an expansion tank design and = wondered if someone could share the important elements of a good cooling = system design. Looking at photos of other aircraft I=92ve seen lines to = expansion tanks from A. Rear iron port. B. Radiator tank top. etc. A. Is = height of tank significant? B. Volume required? C. How much air should = be left in the tank? D. Cap style?.

So much = appreciate having this list.


Steve Izett
Perth Western = Australia  
From:
Subject:
start
Date:
Sat, 24 May 2014 07:57:48 = +0800
To:
Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 
This message, and the = documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may = contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized = disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in = error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal = records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. <Lynns = Plumbing.jpg><Tank2.jpg>--
Homepage: =  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive = and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=

= --Apple-Mail=_D891C860-B097-42E7-881F-1BF1DF1EB649--