X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [207.46.163.244] (HELO na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6818339 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:42:26 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.46.163.244; envelope-from=SBoese@uwyo.edu Received: from BL2PR05MB098.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.255.232.15) by BL2PR05MB099.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.255.232.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.913.9; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 22:41:50 +0000 Received: from BL2PR05MB098.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.131]) by BL2PR05MB098.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.131]) with mapi id 15.00.0913.002; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 22:41:49 +0000 From: "Steven W. Boese" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: AN 10 PTFE hose and fittings Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: AN 10 PTFE hose and fittings Thread-Index: AQHPUqeegIANiCfwMkGY9fzBpsuL+psGvN6X Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 22:41:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [70.196.197.94] x-forefront-prvs: 0174BD4BDA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10009001)(6009001)(428001)(189002)(24454002)(51914003)(479174003)(377454003)(199002)(93516002)(76482001)(54316002)(95666003)(46102001)(87266001)(56776001)(2656002)(94946001)(97186001)(81342001)(47446002)(16236675002)(53806001)(94316002)(31966008)(86362001)(95416001)(33646001)(85306002)(47736001)(93136001)(81542001)(69226001)(81686001)(87936001)(97336001)(85852003)(83322001)(83072002)(74662001)(54356001)(92566001)(19580395003)(74502001)(76786001)(77096001)(75432001)(20776003)(63696002)(99396002)(74706001)(80022001)(77982001)(65816001)(74366001)(49866001)(76576001)(19580405001)(47976001)(76796001)(4396001)(81816001)(56816005)(50986001)(98676001)(74316001)(80976001)(79102001)(66066001)(74876001)(90146001)(15975445006)(59766001)(24736002)(80792004)(55214004)(19607625005);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;SCL:1;SRVR:BL2PR05MB099;H:BL2PR05MB098.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;FPR:8CF4F01F.AEF2ADA5.30F1317B.92EA7343.20452;MLV:sfv;PTR:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;A:1;LANG:en; received-spf: None (: uwyo.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_cf4f1bb0bb1240a5b44b6a6a98290458BL2PR05MB098namprd05pro_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: uwyo.edu --_000_cf4f1bb0bb1240a5b44b6a6a98290458BL2PR05MB098namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, The wire from the fitting in the photo was rounded and smooth on the ends. = The length was such that a little over 1/16" was still in the insertion ho= le and not bent. All the fittings were that way as were fittings from othe= r vendors which did not exhibit problems. I did contact S. I. and their response was that the fittings could be retur= ned for credit if in "as new" condition which, of course they are not. Were the hose ends you used straight and not angled? If so, the rotation o= f the fitting along with the nut may not have been so noticeable. This wou= ld result in torque applied to the hose which would tend to loosen the conn= ection when placed in service. Hopefully, my experience is unusual and you= r connections are not at risk. Steve ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of = Charlie England Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 3:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: AN 10 PTFE hose and fittings On 4/7/2014 1:11 AM, Steven W. Boese wrote: At the end of November last year, I responded to an inquiry from Charlie co= ncerning AN PTFE hose and fittings from siliconeintakes.com. I stated that= my experience with their products and service was positive but that I had = not specifically tried their hose and fittings. I now have some experience with their AN10 PTFE hose and fittings as shown = in the attached photo. The fitting is manufactured by placing the blue nut= on the red fitting and inserting the heavy wire through the hole in the nu= t. The wire captures the nut and allows it to rotate relative to the fitti= ng. When the tapered part of the fitting first contacts the male end to wh= ich it is being connected, the fitting cocks sideways in the nut as seen in= the left side of the photo. If the nut is tightened further, the fitting = rotates with the nut and thus maintaining proper alignment of the angled fi= tting is nearly impossible. If the fitting is restrained from rotating, th= e wire inside the nut digs into the fitting and then comes out of the back = of the nut with the results as seen in the right side of the photo. I have= used fittings of similar design from other vendors successfully. Apparent= ly the dimensions of the wire or the grooves in the siliconeintakes nut and= /or fitting are not correct, or the aluminum alloy used is too soft, or the= re may be some other defect. I tried installing two 90 degree fittings and= two 45 degree fittings and all of them failed. Steve Boese RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 Hi Steve, Thanks for the update; that does not sound like good news. I have made up a= ll my hoses using their PTFE hose & fittings, & haven't had any problems wi= th them, though they haven't seen any pressure yet. I did get one -10 fitti= ng that had a scratch on the metal tube (they promptly replaced it without = charge), so this morning I pulled it apart to see if I might have similar i= ssues. The end of the wire insert in mine is nicely rounded so it will foll= ow the groove when inserted, and I haven't seen any evidence of the fitting= s tilting over when tightened. Have you contacted S. I. ? I wonder if they might have gotten a batch of fi= ttings with bad wire inserts. Maybe the wire was too long & wedged into its= elf when it was inserted in the fittings you got. Thanks again for the info, & please keep us updated. Charlie --_000_cf4f1bb0bb1240a5b44b6a6a98290458BL2PR05MB098namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Charlie,

 

The wire from the fitting in the photo was rounded and smooth on the end= s.  The length was such that a little over 1/16" was still in the= insertion hole and not bent.  All the fittings were that way as were = fittings from other vendors which did not exhibit problems.

 

I did contact S. I. and their response was that the fittings could be re= turned for credit if in "as new" condition which, of course they = are not.

 

Were the hose ends you used straight and not angled?  If so, the ro= tation of the fitting along with the nut may not have been so not= iceable.  This would result in torque applied to the hose which would = tend to loosen the connection when placed in service.  Hopefully, my experience is unusual and your connections are not at risk.&= nbsp;  

 

Steve

From: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of Charlie England <= ;ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 3:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: AN 10 PTFE hose and fittings
 
On 4/7/2014 1:11 AM, Steven W. Boese wrote:<= br>

At the end of November last year, I responded to an inquiry from Charlie= concerning AN PTFE hose and fittings from siliconeintakes.com.  I sta= ted that my experience with their products and service was positive but tha= t I had not specifically tried their hose and fittings.

 

I now have some experience with their AN10 PTFE hose and fittings as sho= wn in the attached photo.  The fitting is manufactured by placing= the blue nut on the red fitting and inserting the heavy wire through the h= ole in the nut.  The wire captures the nut and allows it to rotate relative to the fitting.  When the tapered pa= rt of the fitting first contacts the male end to which it is being connecte= d, the fitting cocks sideways in the nut as seen in the left side of the ph= oto.  If the nut is tightened further, the fitting rotates with the nut and thus maintaining proper alignment of = the angled fitting is nearly impossible.  If the fitting is restrained= from rotating, the wire inside the nut digs into the fitting and then come= s out of the back of the nut with the results as seen in the right side of the photo.  I have used fit= tings of similar design from other vendors successfully.  Apparently t= he dimensions of the wire or the grooves in the siliconeintakes nut an= d/or fitting are not correct, or the aluminum alloy used is too soft, or there may be some other defect.  = I tried installing two 90 degree fittings and two 45 degree fittings and al= l of them failed.

 

Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2
Hi Steve,

Thanks for the update; that does not sound like good news. I have made up a= ll my hoses using their PTFE hose & fittings, & haven't had any pro= blems with them, though they haven't seen any pressure yet. I did get one -= 10 fitting that had a scratch on the metal tube (they promptly replaced it without charge), so this morning I pulled = it apart to see if I might have similar issues. The end of the wire insert = in mine is nicely rounded so it will follow the groove when inserted, and I= haven't seen any evidence of the fittings tilting over when tightened.

Have you contacted S. I. ? I wonder if they might have gotten a batch of fi= ttings with bad wire inserts. Maybe the wire was too long & wedged into= itself when it was inserted in the fittings you got.

Thanks again for the info, & please keep us updated.

Charlie
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