X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.202] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6791431 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:42:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.202; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mae01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mae01.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.143]) by omr-d05.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 996C370002C59 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-dde002a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dde002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.53.5]) by mtaomg-mae01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 68BF438000083 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:41:58 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D113A031813EE7_D7C_ED757_webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38442-STANDARD Received: from 72.171.16.250 by webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com (149.174.9.14) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:41:58 -0400 Message-Id: <8D113A03164AE5B-D7C-48203@webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [72.171.16.250] Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:41:58 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1395463318; bh=9STs4TXYjyIEPvH7R2YvWeu7H+jcme8Vw7mhc7EfuIU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LWTMJwhIpicdGEOjBn9SiqqzLdieUX/x7G55B9WmdAm62dKITA9PKWZyXGGh1V0IJ +4k1jjF5fW7DKDO0Utlh2JMwV0Jl0NjSUmQczCvGipVnJfyX4IK69nRSn4sSJk6cDa 8kan8bkIPnebWmdICZcDzsXIJlOBScpUYn/xQVMo= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe8f532d14963818 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D113A031813EE7_D7C_ED757_webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Charlie; I thank you for making me think. I went back to Tracy's old site, realworld= solutions and looked it up: 2.176:1 So 6110 Engine RPM was 2808 Prop RPM. Only 392 remaining RPM before I need = a bigger prop! I should be going faster at this prop RPM. That's the drag penalty. I have = some ideas to streamline the muffler hangers... =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 8:14 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress =20 =20 On 3/21/2014 8:54 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote: =20 =20 =20 Charlie, & all; =20 Yes it's an RD-1a left hand turning 2.19:1 (or I think it's 2.19) =20 2.15 you say? I've been calculating prop speed based on 2.19, so I= guess I'd better refresh... =20 By my calculation 6110 RPM =3D 2790 Prop RPM. If 2.15:1 then =3D 2= 842 Prop RPM. =20 If I'm using the right numbers, I'm running a slightly higher powe= r than a 180 Lyc @ 2700 RPM & altitude to overcome some of my scoo= p & muffler drag. I'm using a CATTO 2 blade for 180 HP O-360 Lycom= ing, just left hand turning. So comparisons should be easier.=20 =20 I'm not trying to lean out to an optimal mixture for economy, I'm = setting mixture to be rich enough to keep the exhaust temp below t= he alarm point which appears to be preset @ 1750. =20 I just passed 10 hours of Phase 1 testing, so I'm not very experie= nced yet. =20 I just checked VAN' swebsite for RV-8 performance specs, and I'm "= at or slightly above" 75% power of a 180 HP Lycoming @ 8000'. Abou= t 8 MPH slow of top speed @8000'. Next time I'll dial in some more= power, 29.2" MP isn't so much. 3200 RPM is the max for the prop, = and I have a Prop Tach available to set on the dash, to be on the= safe side. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Don't take my word for the exact ratio; I was working from more or l= ess defective memory. :-)=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 4:34 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress =20 =20 =20 =20 On 3/21/2014 5:45 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote: =20 =20 =20 I can report some positive progress with the RV-8 = 13BT. =20 I took time out from flying to install the wheel pants, = leg and intersection fairings. Although the left side di= dn't go on as well as I would have liked, I am flying it= again, and it is faster. =20 Now I feel I am roughly equivalent to a stock RV-8. My r= adiator scoop, oil cooler air exit louvers and under slu= ng muffler may increase aerodynamic drag, but that is a = penalty I carry while comparing performance to a Lycomin= g equipped RV-8. =20 I took off today with roughly 37"Hg manifold pressure, l= eft the throttle alone. We climbed to 8000 msl, where I = leveled out and let the speed build until it stabilized.= The vortex generator I installed in the oil cooler air = plenum must be effective, as the oil temp only reached 1= 97F =20 I took a picture of the EM-2, to evaluate after landing. =20 6110 RPM, 29.2 MP, TAS 206, EGT 1709 =20 13.8 GPH, =20 161 H20 Temp, 186 Oil Temp. Oil Pressure 60. =20 The GPS read 197 ground speed, don't know what the winds= aloft were. =20 Disclaimer: I have not calibrated the EM-2, I'm just get= ting familiar with programming the Fuel Map. I'm working= out some of the lean spots, and after a measure of succ= ess, moving it over to the B controller. =20 I'm flying with full fuel, and some stuff in the cockpit= , so I'm frequently about 1750Lbs take of weight, althou= gh I was about 1700 lbs TO weight on the second flight t= oday, where I did see climb rates of 1500 to 2000 fpm at= various speeds and altitudes from 1100 field elevation = to 5000 MSL. =20 I have not gone to full power. I understand the applicat= ion of a waste gate now. At low to moderated power, the = turbo boost (I have it instrumented as well as manifold = pressure) will stay about 30", but when I add manifold p= ressure above about 25", the turbo boost increases subst= antially more than the manifold pressure I select with t= he throttle. It would be nice to advance the throttle to= wide open for take off, and close the waste gate gradua= lly while climbing. =20 I have intercooler components, which I hold up to the en= gine and try to envision a mounting & ducting scheme. I'= m also trying to do the same with a waste gate. I have a= big clunky automotive unit from Turbonetics, but I like= the concept used on a Turbo Aztec better...=20 =20 =20 =20 Congrats on the good cooling & performance numbers. = Can you refresh my memory? 2.15 drive? Those numbers look = like 75% on a 180 hp Lyc (except the fuel burn: ~10gph at that= altitude/speed with a Lyc). No wastegate or intercooler is pr= obably why the fuel burn is a bit out of whack. Sounds like yo= u've got a good thing going, though. Please keep the reports c= oming. =20 Charlie =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8D113A031813EE7_D7C_ED757_webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Charlie;
I thank you for making me think. I went back to Tracy's old site, real= worldsolutions and looked it up: 2.176:1
So 6110 Engine RPM was 2808 Prop RPM. Only 392 remaining RPM before I = need a bigger prop!
I should be going faster at this prop RPM. That's the drag penalty. I = have some ideas to streamline the muffler hangers...


-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 8:14 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress

=20 =20 =20 =20
=20
On 3/21/2014 8:54 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote:
=20
Charlie, & all;
=20
Yes it's an RD-1a left hand turning 2.19:1 (or I think it's 2.19)
=20
2.15 you say? I've been calculating prop speed based on 2.19, so I guess I'd better refresh...
=20
By my calculation 6110 RPM =3D 2790 Prop RPM. If 2.15:1 then =3D 2842 Prop RPM.
=20
If I'm using the right numbers, I'm running a slightly higher power than a 180 Lyc @ 2700 RPM & altitude t= o overcome some of my scoop & muffler drag. I'm using a CATTO 2 blade for 180 HP O-360 Lycoming, just left hand turning. So comparisons should be easier. 
=20
I'm not trying to lean out to an optimal mixture for economy, I'm setting mixture to be rich enough to keep = the exhaust temp below the alarm point which appears to be preset @ 1750.
=20
I just passed 10 hours of Phase 1 testing, so I'm not very experienced yet.
=20
I just checked VAN' swebsite for RV-8 performance specs, and I'm "at or slightly above" 75% power of a 180 HP Lycoming @ 8000'. About 8 MPH slow of top speed @8000'. Next time I'll dial in some more power, 29.2" MP isn't so much. 3200 RPM is the max for the prop, and I have a Prop Tach  available to s= et on the dash, to be on the safe side.
=20

Don't take my word for the exact ratio; I was working from more or less defective memory. :-)

=20
=20

=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 4:34 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress

=20
=20
=20
On 3/21/2014 5:45 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote:
=20
I can report some positive progress with the RV-8 13BT.
=20
I took time out from flying to install the wheel pants, leg and intersection fairings. Although the left side didn't go on as well as I would have liked, I am flying it again, and it is faster.
=20
Now I feel I am roughly equivalent to a stock RV-8. My radiator scoop, oil cooler air exit louvers and under slung muffler may increase aerodynamic drag, but that is a penalty I carry while comparing performance to a Lycoming equipped RV-8.
=20
I took off today with roughly 37"Hg manifold pressure, left the throttle alone. We climbed to 8000 msl, where I leveled out and let the speed build until it stabilized. The vortex generator I installed in the oil cooler air plenum must be effective, as the oil temp only reached 197F
=20
I took a picture of the EM-2, to evaluate after landing.
=20
6110 RPM, 29.2 MP, TAS 206, EGT 1709
=20
13.8 GPH,
=20
161 H20 Temp, 186 Oil Temp. Oil Pressure 60.
=20
The GPS read 197 ground speed, don't know what the winds aloft were.
=20
Disclaimer: I have not calibrated the EM-2, I'm just getting familiar with programming the Fuel Map. I'm working out some of the lean spots, and after a measure of success, moving it over to the B controller.
=20
I'm flying with full fuel, and some stuff in the cockpit, so I'm frequently about 1750Lbs take of weight, although I was about 1700 lbs TO weight on the second flight today, where I did see climb rates of 1500 to 2000 fpm at various speeds and altitudes from 1100 field elevation to 5000 MSL.
=20
I have not gone to full power. I understand the application of a waste gate now. At low to moderated power, the turbo boost (I have it instrumented as well as manifold pressure) will stay about 30", but when I add manifold pressure above about 25", the turbo boost increases substantially more than the manifold pressure I select with the throttle. It would be nice to advance the throttle to wide open for take off, and close the waste gate gradually while climbing.
=20
I have intercooler components, which I hold up to the engine and try to envision a mounting & ducting scheme. I'm also trying to do the same with a waste gate. I have a big clunky automotive unit from Turbonetics, but I like the concept used on a Turbo Aztec better... 
=20
 
Congrats on the good cooling & performance numbers. Can you refresh my memory? 2.15 drive? Those numbers look like 75% on a 180 hp Lyc (except the fuel burn: ~10gph at that altitude/speed with a Lyc). No wastegate or intercooler is probably why the fuel burn is a bit out of whack. Sounds like you've got a good thing going, though. Please keep the reports coming.

Charlie

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