X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.207] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6791397 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 21 Mar 2014 21:54:48 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.207; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mca01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mca01.mx.aol.com [172.26.221.79]) by omr-d08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 7EE83700000AC for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2014 21:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-dde002a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dde002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.53.5]) by mtaomg-mca01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 44D2A38000082 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2014 21:54:13 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D11388C240A23E_D7C_EC30A_webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38442-STANDARD Received: from 72.171.16.246 by webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com (149.174.9.14) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 21 Mar 2014 21:54:13 -0400 Message-Id: <8D11388C23259F8-D7C-47CC3@webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [72.171.16.246] Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 21:54:13 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1395453253; bh=vk1ueR131nZeiro6p5g6FpEto3bobxfGkVdRkbfpmgw=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=l3del0k1A5KdqNX33KEcqF8jnssduOTbVxA5aiWcPvu7xnj39/RxXOrcCQTT2nS0+ k00Nb9ZlkYrGrlppfI6Q6Kjl0+ToYC8GOzHdxYvVO/tE6md7WN92QmcCAl9CEcaRHU 4hBtwgMW8PGh6M9LcjTAJyX1cRStBww0LzV3pXtY= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1add4f532ced4544a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D11388C240A23E_D7C_EC30A_webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Charlie, & all; Yes it's an RD-1a left hand turning 2.19:1 (or I think it's 2.19) 2.15 you say? I've been calculating prop speed based on 2.19, so I guess I'= d better refresh... By my calculation 6110 RPM =3D 2790 Prop RPM. If 2.15:1 then =3D 2842 Prop = RPM. If I'm using the right numbers, I'm running a slightly higher power than a = 180 Lyc @ 2700 RPM & altitude to overcome some of my scoop & muffler drag. = I'm using a CATTO 2 blade for 180 HP O-360 Lycoming, just left hand turning= . So comparisons should be easier.=20 I'm not trying to lean out to an optimal mixture for economy, I'm setting m= ixture to be rich enough to keep the exhaust temp below the alarm point whi= ch appears to be preset @ 1750. I just passed 10 hours of Phase 1 testing, so I'm not very experienced yet. I just checked VAN' swebsite for RV-8 performance specs, and I'm "at or sli= ghtly above" 75% power of a 180 HP Lycoming @ 8000'. About 8 MPH slow of to= p speed @8000'. Next time I'll dial in some more power, 29.2" MP isn't so m= uch. 3200 RPM is the max for the prop, and I have a Prop Tach available to= set on the dash, to be on the safe side. =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 4:34 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress =20 =20 On 3/21/2014 5:45 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote: =20 =20 =20 I can report some positive progress with the RV-8 13BT. =20 I took time out from flying to install the wheel pants, leg and in= tersection fairings. Although the left side didn't go on as well a= s I would have liked, I am flying it again, and it is faster. =20 Now I feel I am roughly equivalent to a stock RV-8. My radiator sc= oop, oil cooler air exit louvers and under slung muffler may incre= ase aerodynamic drag, but that is a penalty I carry while comparin= g performance to a Lycoming equipped RV-8. =20 I took off today with roughly 37"Hg manifold pressure, left the th= rottle alone. We climbed to 8000 msl, where I leveled out and let = the speed build until it stabilized. The vortex generator I instal= led in the oil cooler air plenum must be effective, as the oil tem= p only reached 197F =20 I took a picture of the EM-2, to evaluate after landing. =20 6110 RPM, 29.2 MP, TAS 206, EGT 1709 =20 13.8 GPH, =20 161 H20 Temp, 186 Oil Temp. Oil Pressure 60. =20 The GPS read 197 ground speed, don't know what the winds aloft wer= e. =20 Disclaimer: I have not calibrated the EM-2, I'm just getting famil= iar with programming the Fuel Map. I'm working out some of the lea= n spots, and after a measure of success, moving it over to the B c= ontroller. =20 I'm flying with full fuel, and some stuff in the cockpit, so I'm f= requently about 1750Lbs take of weight, although I was about 1700 = lbs TO weight on the second flight today, where I did see climb ra= tes of 1500 to 2000 fpm at various speeds and altitudes from 1100 = field elevation to 5000 MSL. =20 I have not gone to full power. I understand the application of a w= aste gate now. At low to moderated power, the turbo boost (I have = it instrumented as well as manifold pressure) will stay about 30",= but when I add manifold pressure above about 25", the turbo boost= increases substantially more than the manifold pressure I select = with the throttle. It would be nice to advance the throttle to wid= e open for take off, and close the waste gate gradually while clim= bing. =20 I have intercooler components, which I hold up to the engine and t= ry to envision a mounting & ducting scheme. I'm also trying to do = the same with a waste gate. I have a big clunky automotive unit fr= om Turbonetics, but I like the concept used on a Turbo Aztec bette= r...=20 =20 =20 =20 Congrats on the good cooling & performance numbers. Can you refresh = my memory? 2.15 drive? Those numbers look like 75% on a 180 hp Lyc (exce= pt the fuel burn: ~10gph at that altitude/speed with a Lyc). No wastegat= e or intercooler is probably why the fuel burn is a bit out of whack. So= unds like you've got a good thing going, though. Please keep the reports= coming. =20 Charlie =20 =20 ----------MB_8D11388C240A23E_D7C_EC30A_webmail-m134.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Charlie, & all;
Yes it's an RD-1a left hand turning 2.19:1 (or I think it's 2.19)
2.15 you say? I've been calculating prop speed based on 2.19, so I gue= ss I'd better refresh...
By my calculation 6110 RPM =3D 2790 Prop RPM. If 2.15:1 then =3D 2842 = Prop RPM.
If I'm using the right numbers, I'm running a slightly higher power th= an a 180 Lyc @ 2700 RPM & altitude to overcome some of my sco= op & muffler drag. I'm using a CATTO 2 blade for 180 HP O-360 Lycoming,= just left hand turning. So comparisons should be easier. 
I'm not trying to lean out to an optimal mixture for economy, I'm = ;setting mixture to be rich enough to keep the exhaust temp below the = alarm point which appears to be preset @ 1750.
I just passed 10 hours of Phase 1 testing, so I'm not very experienced= yet.
I just checked VAN' swebsite for RV-8 performance specs, and I'm "at o= r slightly above" 75% power of a 180 HP Lycoming @ 8000'. About 8 MPH slow = of top speed @8000'. Next time I'll dial in some more power, 29.2" MP isn't= so much. 3200 RPM is the max for the prop, and I have a Prop Tach  av= ailable to set on the dash, to be on the safe side.


-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 4:34 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Progress

=20 =20 =20 =20
=20
On 3/21/2014 5:45 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote:
=20
I can report some positive progress with the RV-8 13BT.
=20
I took time out from flying to install the wheel pants, leg and intersection fairings. Although the left side didn't go on as well as I would have liked, I am flying it again, and it is faster.
=20
Now I feel I am roughly equivalent to a stock RV-8. My radiator scoop, oil cooler air exit louvers and under slung muffler may increase aerodynamic drag, but that is a penalty I carry while comparing performance to a Lycoming equipped RV-8. =20
I took off today with roughly 37"Hg manifold pressure, left the throttle alone. We climbed to 8000 msl, where I leveled out and let the speed build until it stabilized. The vortex generator I installed in the oil cooler air plenum must be effective, as the oil temp only reached 197F
=20
I took a picture of the EM-2, to evaluate after landing.
=20
6110 RPM, 29.2 MP, TAS 206, EGT 1709
=20
13.8 GPH,
=20
161 H20 Temp, 186 Oil Temp. Oil Pressure 60.
=20
The GPS read 197 ground speed, don't know what the winds aloft were.
=20
Disclaimer: I have not calibrated the EM-2, I'm just getting familiar with programming the Fuel Map. I'm working out some of the lean spots, and after a measure of success, moving it over to the B controller.
=20
I'm flying with full fuel, and some stuff in the cockpit, so I'm frequently about 1750Lbs take of weight, although I was about 1700 lbs TO weight on the second flight today, where I did see climb rates of 1500 to 2000 fpm at various speeds and altitudes from 1100 field elevation to 5000 MSL.
=20
I have not gone to full power. I understand the application of a waste gate now. At low to moderated power, the turbo boost (I have it instrumented as well as manifold pressure) will stay about 30", but when I add manifold pressure above about 25", the turbo boost increases substantially more than the manifold pressure I select with the throttle. It would be nice to advance the throttle to wide open for take off, and close the waste gate gradually while climbing.
=20
I have intercooler components, which I hold up to the engine and try to envision a mounting & ducting scheme. I'm also trying to do the same with a waste gate. I have a b= ig clunky automotive unit from Turbonetics, but I like the concept used on a Turbo Aztec better... 
=20
 
Congrats on the good cooling & performance numbers. Can you refresh my memory? 2.15 drive? Those numbers look like 75% on a 180 hp Lyc (except the fuel burn: ~10gph at that altitude/speed with a Lyc). No wastegate or intercooler is probably why the fuel burn is a bit out of whack. Sounds like you've got a good thing going, though. Please keep the reports coming.

Charlie

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