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From: Ben Haas <stol83001@live.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight jitters
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 12:51:53 -0600
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44hg  is based on 29.92 + 11 hg of boost..... That converts to about 5 psi

Ben Haas
=0A=
www.haaspowerair.com


To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
From: Lehanover@aol.com
Date: Wed=2C 11 Sep 2013 01:46:54 -0400
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight jitters

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
I must admit I have never understood manifold pressure. I have been working=
 =0A=
on that. The lack of power at lower RPM is understood.=0A=
 =0A=
RPM X torque =3D HP. So=2C the engine has poor torque due to short stroke. =
=0A=
There goes half of your multiplier. Tuning needs to be a bit closer to idea=
l. =0A=
The best way to remove HP is a poor exhaust system. =0A=
Look at the care in the designs of dirt bike exhaust systems. A typical =0A=
turbo exhaust manifold is a poor design for a normally aspirated engine.=0A=
And until the boost is up to overcome that poor design and add the =0A=
recovered power to the intake=2C you just have a NA engine with a bad exhau=
st =0A=
design.  =0A=
 =0A=
So the first engine saw 44" HG when it failed. That would be 21.5 pounds of=
 =0A=
boost. Over 20 pounds you need to be right on the tune. =0A=
Well rich of peak EGT to fuel cool and lower charge temperature. =0A=
Timing 2 degrees below best power. Good size intercooler and a quick waste =
=0A=
gate. That was on the way to being a drag racing engine before adding the k=
nown =0A=
problems. =0A=
 =0A=
When the boost is low or there is none=2C then you can use more ignition =
=0A=
advance.  Once you can limit boost to say 4 to 6 pounds or 8" to 16"HG with=
 =0A=
a waste gate you can be close to 18 degrees. Same as a NA engine. When the =
=0A=
boost is up to maximum then you need to retard a bit. On long closed thrott=
le =0A=
runs you can be up to 35 degrees.=0A=
This because you have few pounds of air=2C and nearly no fuel flow. So=2C v=
ery =0A=
low compression. All this takes a long time to burn the idle mix. =0A=
The RX-8s do this. =0A=
 =0A=
How is this? One pound of boost is the same as 2.04" HG. Or=2C 14.7 pounds =
at =0A=
sea level times 2.04 =3D29.98" HG. At any throttle setting=2C=0A=
local barometer showing on the manifold pressure gage suggests a well =0A=
designed intake system and a free flowing air filter. The Manifold pressure=
 gage =0A=
is measuring vacuum in the intake system. The gage is connected between =0A=
the butterfly and the engine or turbo inlet. =0A=
 =0A=
The boost gage measures pressures above local barometric in either pounds =
=0A=
of boost or inches of Mercury or both and is connected between the turbo =
=0A=
and the engine. It is measuring pressure in the inlet runner. =0A=
 =0A=
Is that correct? =0A=
 =0A=
Add timing marks to your starter ring gear. Divide the number of teeth by =
=0A=
360 to get degrees per tooth. Clean and paint a green tooth at TDC.=0A=
Turn the engine backwards and paint a tooth or valley between teeth another=
 =0A=
color for 15 degrees. Paint a red tooth at 20 degrees=2C and so-on. Write t=
he code =0A=
on the engine beside the pointer you have constructed. OK for tractor aircr=
aft. =0A=
Not so much fun for pushers where the prop is pulling at your loose clothin=
g. =0A=
=0A=
 =0A=
Lynn E. Hanover=0A=
 =0A=
 =0A=
=0A=
In a message dated 9/9/2013 9:36:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C =0A=
rwstracy@gmail.com writes:=0A=
=0A=
  If your ignition timing measurement was accurate at 3000 rpm and 16" mp=
=2C =0A=
   it's way too retarded.  What did you set the static timing to? =0A=
    Remember that that has nothing to do with actual ignition timing. =0A=
   It's just a reference point for the computer.=0A=
 =20
=0A=
  Tracy
 		 	   		  =

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>44hg &nbsp=3Bis based on 29.92 +=
 11 hg of boost..... That converts to about 5 psi<br><br><font size=3D"4">B=
en Haas</font><br>=0A=
<font size=3D"4">www.haaspowerair.com</font><br><br><br><div><hr id=3D"stop=
Spelling">To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net<br>From: Lehanover@aol.com<br>Dat=
e: Wed=2C 11 Sep 2013 01:46:54 -0400<br>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flig=
ht jitters<br><br>=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
<font id=3D"ecxrole_document" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">=
=0A=
<div>I must admit I have never understood manifold pressure. I have been wo=
rking =0A=
on that. The lack of power at lower RPM is understood.</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>RPM X torque =3D HP. So=2C the engine has poor&nbsp=3Btorque due to sh=
ort stroke. =0A=
There goes half of your multiplier. Tuning needs to be a bit closer to idea=
l. =0A=
The best way to remove HP is a poor exhaust system. </div>=0A=
<div>Look at the care in the designs of dirt bike exhaust systems. A typica=
l =0A=
turbo exhaust manifold is a poor design for a normally aspirated engine.</d=
iv>=0A=
<div>And until the boost is up to overcome that poor design and add the =0A=
recovered power to the intake=2C you just have a NA engine with a bad exhau=
st =0A=
design.&nbsp=3B </div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>So the first engine saw 44" HG when it failed. That would be 21.5 poun=
ds of =0A=
boost. Over 20 pounds you need to be right on the tune. </div>=0A=
<div>Well rich of peak EGT to fuel cool and lower charge temperature. </div=
>=0A=
<div>Timing 2 degrees below best power. Good size intercooler and a quick w=
aste =0A=
gate. That was on the way to being a drag racing engine before adding the k=
nown =0A=
problems. </div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>When the boost is low or there is none=2C then you can use more igniti=
on =0A=
advance.&nbsp=3B Once you can limit boost to say 4 to 6 pounds or 8" to 16"=
HG with =0A=
a waste gate you can be close to 18&nbsp=3Bdegrees. Same as a NA engine. Wh=
en the =0A=
boost is up to maximum then you need to retard a bit. On long closed thrott=
le =0A=
runs you can be up to 35 degrees.</div>=0A=
<div>This because you have few pounds of air=2C and nearly no fuel flow. So=
=2C very =0A=
low compression. All this takes a long time to burn the idle mix. </div>=0A=
<div>The RX-8s do this. </div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>How is this? One pound of boost is the same as 2.04" HG. Or=2C 14.7 po=
unds at =0A=
sea level times 2.04 =3D29.98" HG. At any throttle setting=2C</div>=0A=
<div>local barometer showing on the manifold pressure gage suggests a well =
=0A=
designed intake system and a free flowing air filter. The Manifold pressure=
 gage =0A=
is measuring vacuum in the intake system.&nbsp=3BThe gage is connected betw=
een =0A=
the&nbsp=3Bbutterfly and the engine or turbo inlet. </div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>The boost gage measures pressures above local barometric in either pou=
nds =0A=
of boost or inches of Mercury&nbsp=3Bor both and is connected between the t=
urbo =0A=
and the engine. It is measuring pressure in the inlet runner.&nbsp=3B</div>=
=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>Is that correct? </div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>Add timing marks to your starter ring gear. Divide the number of teeth=
 by =0A=
360 to get degrees per tooth. Clean and paint a green tooth at TDC.</div>=
=0A=
<div>Turn the engine backwards and paint a tooth or valley between teeth an=
other =0A=
color for 15 degrees. Paint a red tooth at 20 degrees=2C and so-on. Write t=
he code =0A=
on the engine beside the pointer you have constructed. OK for tractor aircr=
aft. =0A=
Not so much fun for pushers where the prop is pulling at your loose clothin=
g. =0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>Lynn E. Hanover</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>In a message dated 9/9/2013 9:36:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C =0A=
rwstracy@gmail.com writes:</div>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT:5px=3BMARGIN-LEFT:5px=3BBORDER-LEFT:blue =
2px solid=3B"><font style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent=3B" color=3D"#000=
000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">=0A=
  <div>If your ignition timing measurement was accurate at 3000 rpm and 16"=
 mp=2C =0A=
  &nbsp=3Bit's way too retarded. &nbsp=3BWhat did you set the static timing=
 to? =0A=
  &nbsp=3B Remember that that has nothing to do with actual ignition timing=
. =0A=
  &nbsp=3BIt's just a reference point for the computer.</div>=0A=
  <div><br></div>=0A=
  <div>Tracy<br></div></font></blockquote></div></font></div> 		 	   		  </=
div></body>
</html>=

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