X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.202] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6461142 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 21:13:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.202; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.140]) by omr-d05.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 74AFC70007CCF for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2013 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ddb003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddb003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.73]) by mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 3D917E000085 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2013 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight jitters In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D07BDA0960A6A3_D24_9DD2D_webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38023-STANDARD Received: from 174.61.189.169 by webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com (64.12.159.4) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 09 Sep 2013 21:13:04 -0400 Message-Id: <8D07BDA08F32735-D24-2978E@webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [174.61.189.169] Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1378775585; bh=5gC7pEoqZN849taZf8qVMJJC6J6dMxTjn4wrkiIBQDg=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=m5b6bR9eS+BSHTABa+3Wvs9HbY3yjeIOsCinskaP0xrX5xIi3lM1yNPodN7ELW4zD 82fEEiY9MJpSWII3b2UcBLmzpi7LoOBwg5wSBEVdiMZxoM6mAU2FHkgoYJJUwvP3jN lq/jsctKZKOnNKfm6p08zDwAEr3KTjtJjsuGKrNA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338c522e72210e29 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D07BDA0960A6A3_D24_9DD2D_webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank all of you for the constructive comments. My Prop is a Catto 68X74, the same as for a 180 HP Lycoming O-360, except i= t's left turning due the Tracy's 2.19:1 reduction gear. I should expect to = get 2200 static RPM with it, 4818 engine RPM. The turbocharger is a Turbonetics 60-1 with a TO4-E turbine, with P trim .8= 1 A/R on center housing. Although I did briefly throttle up to 37" Hg, I'm not sure what the RPM was= at that moment. Before I blew up the first version of the engine. I did ge= t above 4800 RPM on a tethered trial. The oil temp rose quite rapidly. The = manifold pressure for that run was 44" Hg. I'm concerned that as the aircra= ft speeds up, the propeller will unload and the RPM will increase, as it wi= ll, causing an increase in exhaust flow, increase in boost, increase in int= ake temp, and another detonation incident. The run where I described checking the timing maxed out at 3000 RPM, where= my hat blew off, is where I saw 11 degree BTDC and 16" Hg. My wife was in = the driver's seat while I was using the strobe light on the pulley. So thes= e numbers are ballpark numbers. I had the top cowl off to read the timing. = Last time I ran to 4000 RPM with the top cowl off, the oil cooler air diffu= ser flew off. I'll do better next time. I have fastened the air diffusers so the next tim= e I should be able to run at the 4000 RPM mandated in the EC-2 manual, wher= e I will be above the mode 6 set point of 22" Hg. I'll find out what the cu= rrent timing actually is, verify the Mode 8 timing is set to the mid point,= and do another run to set the final timing to the 19 degrees recommended o= r something a little less to be on the safe side. If I am too retarded now,= I'll feel the difference in the following full cowl trial to the previousl= y tested settings and if all goes well, higher power. I'll also follow that= advice to vary power to make sure the engine performs well and won't quit = due to transitions. -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 1:58 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight jitters You are either over propped or something is wrong with the engine or tuning= . At 37" mp you should be in the 5500-6000 rpm range. You didn't give = the rpm at 16" mp and 11 deg BTDC so I can't tell if timing is in the ballp= ark or not. Is that the same rpm as your hat blew off (3000)? If so, you = may be too retarded. And of course we need your prop numbers to make a guess about anything. Pr= op chord at 70% on blade is good to know too. Do you have one of those wid= e chord airboat type props? Tracy Sent from my iPad On Sep 9, 2013, at 0:47, shipchief@aol.com wrote: I've been slowly building my RV-8 with 13BT engine for about 14 years...! On June 13th 2013 it received the coveted Airworthiness Certificate. That s= ame day I detonated my engine due to the trailing spark plug holes being ma= chined oversize in an attempt to improve the single spark plug power, shoul= d the leading plug ignition fail. This, and possibly advanced ignition, and= possibly over-boost detonated my engine on it's first high power taxi test= . That took about 2.5 seconds. Now I've rebuilt the engine with new unmodified rotor housings, and it runs= better than ever. I've re-marked the timing marks on the pulley, and reset= the timing, though not to 4000 RPM yet. today I checked it. At 3000 RPM my= hat and hearing protection blew off. 11 degrees BTDC, and 16" manifold pre= ssure. I've been taxiing around at modest RPM, it's great. I've consistently been = idling at about 1600 RPM, (730 prop RPM) and sometimes as low as 1490, (680= Prop RPM) smoothly. That is slow enough to keep the brakes from getting to= o hot. I've done run ups and brief bursts of power to 4200 Engine RPM, (1917 Prop = RPM) which is about 32" manifold pressure, and seen 37" manifold pressure b= riefly. I know this is not enough power to take off, although I have done a= Pre-take off to 50 MPH with this power before powering down with roll out = to the end of the runway. I suppose it would fly off and maybe clear the t= rees at this power. I've lifted the tail, and rocked the wings with the ail= erons. It steers well and the brakes work.=20 The water level in the engine stays up between flights as does the oil, and= the water temp today was consistent 163 F oil about 173 with the highest = observed 183F. I did about 4 pre-take off passes with taxi back, with excel= lent temperature control and throttle response.=20 A couple of oil fitting were tightened looking for an oil seep. 7.3 hours engine running time on the EM2, about 2 hours since the engine ov= erhaul. I don't think I'm at all ready to fly this thing. I'm missing something, so= offer up some advice, I'm all ears! ----------MB_8D07BDA0960A6A3_D24_9DD2D_webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Thank all of you for the constructive comments.
My Prop is a Catto 68X74, the same as for a 180 HP Lycoming O-360, exc= ept it's left turning due the Tracy's 2.19:1 reduction gear. I should expec= t to get 2200 static RPM with it, 4818 engine RPM.
The turbocharger is a Turbonetics 60-1 with a TO4-E turbine, with P tr= im .81 A/R on center housing.
Although I did briefly throttle up to 37" Hg, I'm not sure what the RP= M was at that moment. Before I blew up the first version of the engine. I d= id get above 4800 RPM on a tethered trial. The oil temp rose quite rapidly.= The manifold pressure for that run was 44" Hg. I'm concerned that as the a= ircraft speeds up, the propeller will unload and the RPM will increase, as = it will, causing an increase in exhaust flow, increase in boost, increase i= n intake temp, and another detonation incident.
 
 The run where I described checking the timing maxed out at 3000 = RPM, where my hat blew off, is where I saw 11 degree BTDC and 16"= Hg. My wife was in the driver's seat while I was using the strobe light on= the pulley. So these numbers are ballpark numbers. I had the top cowl off = to read the timing. Last time I ran to 4000 RPM with the top cowl off, the = oil cooler air diffuser flew off.
I'll do better next time. I have fastened the air diffusers so the nex= t time I should be able to run at the 4000 RPM mandated in the EC-2 manual,= where I will be above the mode 6 set point of 22" Hg. I'll find out what t= he current timing actually is, verify the Mode 8 timing is set to the = mid point, and do another run to set the final timing to the 19 degrees rec= ommended or something a little less to be on the safe side. If I am too ret= arded now, I'll feel the difference in the following full cowl trial to the= previously tested settings and if all goes well, higher power. I'll a= lso follow that advice to vary power to make sure the engine performs well = and won't quit due to transitions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 1:58 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Flight jitters

You are either over propped or something is wrong with the engine or t= uning.   At 37" mp you should be in the 5500-6000  rpm range. &nb= sp; You didn't give the rpm at 16" mp and 11 deg BTDC so I can't tell if ti= ming is in the ballpark or not.  Is that the same rpm as your hat blew= off (3000)?  If so, you may be too retarded.

And of course we need your prop numbers to make a guess about anything= .  Prop chord at 70% on blade is good to know too.  Do you have o= ne of those wide chord airboat type props?

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 9, 2013, at 0:47, shipchief@aol= .com wrote:

I've been slowly buildi= ng my RV-8 with 13BT engine for about 14 years...!
On June 13th 2013 it received the coveted Airworthiness Certifica= te. That same day I detonated my engine due to the trailing spark plug hole= s being machined oversize in an attempt to improve the single spark plug po= wer, should the leading plug ignition fail. This, and possibly advanced ign= ition, and possibly over-boost detonated my engine on it's first high power= taxi test. That took about 2.5 seconds.
Now I've rebuilt the engine with new unmodified rotor housings, and it= runs better than ever. I've re-marked the timing marks on the pulley, and = reset the timing, though not to 4000 RPM yet. today I checked it. At 3000 R= PM my hat and hearing protection blew off. 11 degrees BTDC, and 16" manifol= d pressure.
I've been taxiing around at modest RPM, it's great. I've consistently = been idling at about 1600 RPM, (730 prop RPM) and sometimes as low as = 1490, (680 Prop RPM) smoothly. That is slow enough to keep the brakes = from getting too hot.
I've done run ups and brief bursts of power to 4200 Engine RPM, (1917 = Prop RPM) which is about 32" manifold pressure, and seen 37" manifold press= ure briefly. I know this is not enough power to take off, although I have&n= bsp;done a Pre-take off to 50 MPH with this power before powering down=  with roll out to the end of the runway.  I suppose it would= fly off and maybe clear the trees at this power. I've lifted the tail, and= rocked the wings with the ailerons. It steers well and the brakes work.
The water level in the engine stays up between flights as does th= e oil, and the water temp today was consistent 163 F oil  about 173 wi= th the highest observed 183F. I did about 4 pre-take off passes with taxi b= ack, with excellent temperature control and throttle response.
A couple of oil fitting were tightened looking for an oil seep.
7.3 hours engine running time on the EM2, about 2 hours since the engi= ne overhaul.
I don't think I'm at all ready to fly this thing. I'm missing somethin= g, so offer up some advice, I'm all ears!
 ----------MB_8D07BDA0960A6A3_D24_9DD2D_webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com--