X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.32] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6081959 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:59:22 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.32; envelope-from=gordon@acumen-ea.com Received: from omta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.60]) by qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 4bfh1l0061HzFnQ53dymUg; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:58:46 +0000 Received: from HPElitebook ([76.123.51.236]) by omta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 4dym1l00B55mGuc3adymGt; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:58:46 +0000 From: "Gordon Alling" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:58:45 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01ce1360$3a7e58b0$af7b0a10$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CE1336.51A850B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac4S60x5/S5XmLl+QXWUy0w3KIR/ugAcqoxA Content-Language: en-us DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1361800726; bh=NBH/VPlg3eXFj4KxjFe7IYLImXiyxGhPEhl5jeQReT0=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Bsy534y1cySWaVFbbCxGTEXOokI21LKYoybkbAuL8pFrLV1fHVeErWgj5Tnll78W3 bqF03KA7cZU8H/oDuzb/L1eYG6I+LedwSwz8H+F3miYdOTz+NQvtHXhTZ9kbREMRHq ULLTaZDE6hY6PGP2bbResfWI9ns+mXjbxIdZ7gWpSB3SzpILfhWANM0KwpN91/Fo4G afgsSETSciVtKT5rhqfzGObRmJu0ee1fT9WqzbYv40/IjMbD2IGMUgIpqq90Tx7blB u1kAYC0Bkt2M5nx26fNE4sgwY357jN/h6dq4FpCuA088HLcbespSo85Lh2+eAI44oj 3DoxsNMw+PnTw== This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CE1336.51A850B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ken, =20 Thanks for your info. You are correct that I am trying to determine the = position of the engine for proper aircraft CG location. At the moment, = I=E2=80=99m trying to design the engine mount truss for the design = loads. If I know the weight and CG location of the engine/prop = assembly, I can model the loading in truss analysis software and play = =E2=80=9Cwhat if=E2=80=9D games with different truss configurations. = Your 300 Lb. figure for the engine/redrive assembly and your heat = exchanger weights is a start. What does your IVO prop weigh? =20 =20 Thanks again for the help. =20 Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE President acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc. =20 540-786-2200 www.acumen-ea.com =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kenneth Johnson Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location =20 Hi Gordon, I am not certain what you are asking. It would seem you are asking if = you can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking how far = from the firewall should you place your engine? This is what I found = with my engine. I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport redrive. = The weight of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs. My radiator weighs 15 = lbs and the oil cooler weights 7 lbs. I found that when adding the = weight of the radiator and oil cooler fluids, that my engine system = would come very close to the weight of a Lycoming 360. It was estimated = that the average weight of the prop would be 27 lbs. My Ivoprop weighs = less than that, but the prop is positioned much farther anterior than = with a Lycoming because of the redrive. So, the arm is out there. = Tracy's point on the cg of the engine being positioned just inside the = first end plate would be pretty accurate. =20 I am getting closer to finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to = offer actual flight experience. Zenith did provide numbers for the = installation of a Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs. I = had anticipated that I would be placing my engine a great distance from = the firewall because everyone says the 13B is so light. However, after = adding the weight of all the "extras," plus the fact that the arm of my = prop is out a much greater distance than with a Lycoming, I actually had = to move the engine closer to the firewall than if I used a Lycoming. I = concluded that I needed to design and build my own engine mount. I hope this is helpful. Ken johnson _____ =20 From: Gordon Alling To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:07 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] 13B weight and CG location =20 I=E2=80=99m considering a DIY engine mount for my turbo 13B engine. = Does anyone out there with an operating 13B (turbo or NA) have good = numbers for the installed weight and CG location for his/her = engine/redrive/prop combination? I want some ballpark numbers to get = started. =20 Thanks. =20 Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE President acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc. =20 540-786-2200 www.acumen-ea.com =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CE1336.51A850B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ken,

 

Thanks for your info.=C2=A0 You are correct that I am trying to = determine the position of the engine for proper aircraft CG = location.=C2=A0 At the moment, I=E2=80=99m trying to design the engine = mount truss for the design loads.=C2=A0 If I know the weight and CG = location of the engine/prop assembly, I can model the loading in truss = analysis software and play =E2=80=9Cwhat if=E2=80=9D games with = different truss configurations.=C2=A0 Your 300 Lb. figure for the = engine/redrive assembly and your heat exchanger weights is a = start.=C2=A0 What does your IVO prop weigh?=C2=A0 =

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE

President

a= cumen E= ngineering/Analysis, Inc.

 

540-786-2200

www.acumen-ea.com

 

From:= = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kenneth Johnson
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 = 7:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG = location

 

Hi Gordon,
I = am not certain what you are asking.  It would seem you are asking = if you can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking how far = from the firewall should you place your engine?  This is what I = found with my engine.  I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport = redrive.  The weight of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs.  My = radiator weighs 15 lbs and the oil cooler weights 7 lbs.  I found = that when adding the weight of the radiator and oil cooler fluids, that = my engine system would come very close to the weight of a Lycoming = 360.  It was estimated that the average weight of the prop would be = 27 lbs.  My Ivoprop weighs less than that, but the prop is = positioned much farther anterior than with a Lycoming because of the = redrive.   So, the arm is out there.  Tracy's point on = the cg of the engine being positioned just inside the first end plate = would be pretty accurate. 

I am getting closer to finishing = a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to offer actual flight = experience.  Zenith did provide numbers for the installation of a = Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs.  I had = anticipated that I would be placing my engine a great distance from the = firewall because everyone says the 13B is so light.  However, after = adding the weight of all the "extras," plus the fact that the = arm of my prop is out a much greater distance than with a Lycoming, I = actually had to move the engine closer to the firewall than if I used a = Lycoming.  I concluded that I needed to design and build my own = engine mount.

I hope this is helpful.

Ken = johnson

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