X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm18.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.90.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6081255 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:02:30 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.90.81; envelope-from=kjohnsondds@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.55] by nm18.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2013 00:01:56 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.252] by tm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2013 00:01:56 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1044.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2013 00:01:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 3777.20396.bm@omp1044.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 70970 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2013 00:01:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1361750515; bh=UmX7Y+qykt4TtS9Er3S0uGGIyfin11xSoo9GnCCrIT0=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZRvy/HKPoVxTM8vJ6JyoEGBgpEf1g5DLz45YzTGC/zm80euiOgVRvRnlsswzfIFni4dKKDAvKaCOIsTsft8ii1K7h4wfDwhAYsaNQlkJzEeCPl43obvcXoagNkKbHd3ofeLUNVNfmbxSl8VE8yEzRAdwwbFQUfsTpk8QQOr5vnE= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iu5fjFguiXu/kJpgk7MgMB8XZvNqJfXcDU73Evhv+wRlfgclAEAeRHcvW7iRN8mv/1vuDqB/+ASb70Jdlj+3i+UXkSiImq9mja6MrUZTCrWCSBUhKqWSfM1VK+X33aU7ZemqcrE7S8ArxH+D1kb8Glszp1tMbuB0EqBt6Jljfcg=; X-YMail-OSG: OK0lHRcVM1nS4nob6HDgut2EbUe07VZxwYSUlkgQieSgzRa EdQUjcnSNVWw42goZTndg2EmgSWA_wAgjWYhz4VbHOPzdpWf0ca9bmTMIb.Z AeQkWT.6t4nyTAD0t34CwW56ouaGXTzMI5NgLewB9Yt80lhF2mBGWHQ32Tkr s5_vOf3tXqEBY_HhSo4PGvFRkPQvYcEOJZYlX8EHsSopmil6RJp.GXi14rl3 s7u_.Iei.FiZZIf4.thRXWPnCD5vzv0gCRxNLRhuFYozd1fFh23Ytxi4NSlD Itxi_.KqEMeSHZgG598b1yBCpe0SiI5nptYmBR8XPkfgs7m9m4FkHgoYw1d. CbvHmcjRiZb7Du..ozl2a0VxRnPDf6g9SxT9rWb52BMU4v.6a6L_ORvSWbZZ 25jBKjQej8r8964v2dqJ1CZMbEWksuV3HDIqY4aPEUrispUpbyHegqr3vPXn r27ewK8eol2N_e5is.S5w3ntXfk1dgfqeRJnEePOXjLCj2YesZngN0kWJ2lP qyziq75wtzJvB7JLaB.SJ3T1GOF0lmoa40Xdl6iKb7WiBaXgK1NzRh0kNQbY hyTR24FWxQMVBmljKChR0W.HtiWNm Received: from [66.168.8.63] by web125505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:01:55 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 001.001,SGkgR29yZG9uLApJIGFtIG5vdCBjZXJ0YWluIHdoYXQgeW91IGFyZSBhc2tpbmcuwqAgSXQgd291bGQgc2VlbSB5b3UgYXJlIGFza2luZyBpZiB5b3UgY2FuIHVzZSBhIERJWSBlbmdpbmUgbW91bnQsIGFuZCB0aGVyZWZvcmUsIHlvdSBhcmUgYXNraW5nIGhvdyBmYXIgZnJvbSB0aGUgZmlyZXdhbGwgc2hvdWxkIHlvdSBwbGFjZSB5b3VyIGVuZ2luZT_CoCBUaGlzIGlzIHdoYXQgSSBmb3VuZCB3aXRoIG15IGVuZ2luZS7CoCBJIGFtIHVzaW5nIGEgMTNCIE5BIGVuZ2luZSB3aXRoIGEgUG93ZXJTcG9ydCByZWQBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.134.513 References: Message-ID: <1361750515.45950.YahooMailNeo@web125505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:01:55 -0800 (PST) From: Kenneth Johnson Reply-To: Kenneth Johnson Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] 13B weight and CG location To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-781490481-1526690748-1361750515=:45950" ---781490481-1526690748-1361750515=:45950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gordon,=0AI am not certain what you are asking.=C2=A0 It would seem you = are asking if you can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking= how far from the firewall should you place your engine?=C2=A0 This is what= I found with my engine.=C2=A0 I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport= redrive.=C2=A0 The weight of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs.=C2=A0 My ra= diator weighs 15 lbs and the oil cooler weights 7 lbs.=C2=A0 I found that w= hen adding the weight of the radiator and oil cooler fluids, that my engine= system would come very close to the weight of a Lycoming 360.=C2=A0 It was= estimated that the average weight of the prop would be 27 lbs.=C2=A0 My Iv= oprop weighs less than that, but the prop is positioned much farther anteri= or than with a Lycoming because of the redrive.=C2=A0=C2=A0 So, the arm is = out there.=C2=A0 Tracy's point on the cg of the engine being positioned jus= t inside the first end plate would be pretty accurate.=C2=A0 =0A=0AI am get= ting closer to finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to offer actual f= light experience.=C2=A0 Zenith did provide numbers for the installation of = a Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs.=C2=A0 I had anticipated= that I would be placing my engine a great distance from the firewall becau= se everyone says the 13B is so light.=C2=A0 However, after adding the weigh= t of all the "extras," plus the fact that the arm of my prop is out a much = greater distance than with a Lycoming, I actually had to move the engine cl= oser to the firewall than if I used a Lycoming.=C2=A0 I concluded that I ne= eded to design and build my own engine mount.=0A=0AI hope this is helpful.= =0A=0AKen johnson=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Gordon = Alling =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:07 AM=0ASubject: [F= lyRotary] 13B weight and CG location=0A =0A=0AI=E2=80=99m considering a DIY= engine mount for my turbo 13B engine.=C2=A0 Does anyone out there with an = operating 13B (turbo or NA) have good numbers for the installed weight and = CG location for his/her engine/redrive/prop combination?=C2=A0 I want some = ballpark numbers to get started.=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks.=0A=C2=A0=0AGordon C. Al= ling, Jr., PE=0APresident=0Aacumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.=0A=C2=A0=0A54= 0-786-2200=0Awww.acumen-ea.com ---781490481-1526690748-1361750515=:45950 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gordon,
I am no= t certain what you are asking.  It would seem you are asking if you ca= n use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking how far from the fi= rewall should you place your engine?  This is what I found with my eng= ine.  I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport redrive.  The = weight of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs.  My radiator weighs 15 lbs= and the oil cooler weights 7 lbs.  I found that when adding the weigh= t of the radiator and oil cooler fluids, that my engine system would come v= ery close to the weight of a Lycoming 360.  It was estimated that the = average weight of the prop would be 27 lbs.  My Ivoprop weighs less th= an that, but the prop is positioned much farther anterior than with a Lycom= ing because of the redrive.   So, the arm is out there.  Tracy's point on the cg of the engine being positioned just i= nside the first end plate would be pretty accurate. 

I am gett= ing closer to finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to offer actual fl= ight experience.  Zenith did provide numbers for the installation of a= Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs.  I had anticipated = that I would be placing my engine a great distance from the firewall becaus= e everyone says the 13B is so light.  However, after adding the weight= of all the "extras," plus the fact that the arm of my prop is out a much g= reater distance than with a Lycoming, I actually had to move the engine clo= ser to the firewall than if I used a Lycoming.  I concluded that I nee= ded to design and build my own engine mount.

I hope this is helpful.=

Ken johnson
From: Gordon Alling <gordon@acumen-ea.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:07 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] 13B weight and CG l= ocation

=0A
I=E2=80=99m considering a = DIY engine mount for my turbo 13B engine.  Does anyone out there with = an operating 13B (turbo or NA) have good numbers for the installed weight a= nd CG location for his/her engine/redrive/prop combination?  I want so= me ballpark numbers to get started.
 
Thanks.
 
Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE
Pres= ident
acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.
 
540-786-2200
www.acumen-ea.com
 


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