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[98.95.181.66]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u19sm34171548anj.5.2013.02.10.07.42.24 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:42:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5117BFDF.4040200@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:42:23 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Crickets.... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050904050803070201080907" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050904050803070201080907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He ultimately signed the bill, but only after intense pressure from the NRA & airline pilots, & only after inclusion of a requirement that the pilots have a psychological exam to prove that they were stable enough to be trusted with a firearm (when they were already trusted with the lives of all their passengers and crew members). Charlie On 02/10/2013 09:16 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: > > > Federal Flight Deck Officer > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > The *Federal Flight Deck Officer* (*FFDO*) program is run by the > Federal Air Marshal Service > with the > aim of allowing volunteer pilots of commercial airline flights to > carry firearms for the purpose of defending the flight deck against > 9/11-style attacks. > > Following the September 11 attacks > in 2001, the > Arming Pilots Against Terrorism Act, part of the Homeland Security Act > of 2002 directed the Transportation Security Administration > to > develop the Federal Flight Deck Officer program as an additional layer > of security.^[1] > > Under this program, flight crew members are deputized Federal Law > Enforcement Officers authorized by the Transportation Security > Administration to use firearms to defend against acts of criminal > violence or air piracy undertaken to gain control of their aircraft. A > flight crew member may be a pilot, flight engineer or navigator > assigned to the flight. Participants in the program are meant to > remain anonymous, and while armed, are prohibited from sharing their > participation except with select personnel on a need to know basis. > Any pilot or flight engineer employed by a commercial airline is > eligible to volunteer for the FFDO program. Program size quickly > exceeded TSA expectations after the program was opened for volunteers > in early 2003. > > *In December 2003, President George W. Bush > signed into law > legislation that expanded program eligibility to include cargo pilots > and certain other flight crew*. > > Federal Flight Deck Officers are Sworn and Deputized Federal Law > Enforcement officers commissioned by the Department of Homeland > Security/ TSA Law Enforcement Division. Officers are trained on the > use of firearms, use of force, legal issues, defensive tactics, the > psychology of survival and program standard operating procedures. > Flight crew members participating in the program are not eligible for > compensation from the Federal Government for services provided as a > Federal Flight Deck Officer.^[2] > > > The TSA is accused of having a "deep, institutional opposition to the > FFDO program" by the Airline Pilots Security Alliance.^[3] > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Charlie England > wrote: > > Yeah, it's pretty funny. The gun & ammo manufacturers are loving > the current political discussion. Gun owners (for the record, I > own them) act like typical 'little guy' investors; they buy high & > sell low. Most of us on this list are old enough to have seen at > least 3 or 4 of these major gun control discussions over the > decades (I remember the panic due to legislation after the Kennedy > assassination), & 'after changes upon changes, we are more or less > the same'. A year from now, I predict that the only significant > change in federal law will (might) be some type of background > check that pretends to keep felons from buying guns. > > A couple of political tidbits that some may not be aware of: > > The Bush administration fought tooth & nail against allowing > airline pilots to carry. > The Obama administration reversed the Bush era rules & made it > legal to carry in national parks. > > My conclusion would be to just relax & wait, & if I had a few > weapons I wasn't really interested in any more, I'd put them on > the market. :-) > > Charlie > > On 02/10/2013 08:38 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: >> Am I the only one that finds it funny that I live in Texas but >> had to order ammo from California? Go figure! >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Tracy > > wrote: >> >> AR-7 for flights over remote territory. Cheap, light, >> compact, amazingly accurate and carrying 350 rounds of .22 LR >> is easy. Hey, it's for survival, not an armed conflict! >> >> Tracy >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Feb 9, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Dale_R > > wrote: >> >>> I don't suppose the shortage on .40 has anything to do with >>> various agencies of the the Federales buying up pretty much >>> all the current capacity of the major manufacturers for the >>> next year or more? There are a lot of conspiracy theories >>> floating around, but Occam's Razor suggests that the Feds >>> just want to dry up the supply for everyone else. >>> Without ammo, a firearm is just an awkward club. >>> >>> How much do you folks consider to be a reasonable supply to >>> carry in your airplane? For me, 40 - 50 rounds >>> (Rifle=20rd/box; pistol=50/box) should be enough to see me >>> through a trek back to civilization. >>> >>> Dale_R >>> >>> On 2/9/2013 4:51 PM, Chris Barber wrote: >>>> Sorry Brother, the department supplies my rounds. I must >>>> qualify on Valentines Day....hmmmm. Also, I carry a Glock >>>> 22, 40 cal. Yes. I am aware of the shortage >>>> >>>> It's overcast here too and is gonna be at least the next >>>> two days, my days off from rolling and patrolling. Sigh. So >>>> tomorrow I will try to repair my fence so my pup doesn't >>>> try to knock-up every bitch in heat in SE Houston. I can do >>>> that in the rain. :-) Yes, I need to fix him....poor pup.... >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5 >>>> >>>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 17:39, "Mark Steitle" >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chris, >>>>> >>>>> Well, it is low IFR here in Austin-Lockhart today, so the >>>>> wife and I went to the shooting range. We would have >>>>> stayed longer, but in case you haven't heard, there's a >>>>> severe shortage of ammo virtually everywhere. So, tell me >>>>> Chris, what's the inside skinny on where to buy 9mm? >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best Regards, >>> Dale_R >>> Cozy MKIV #497 >> >> > > --------------050904050803070201080907 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
He ultimately signed the bill, but only after intense pressure from the NRA & airline pilots, & only after inclusion of a requirement that the pilots have a psychological exam to prove that they were stable enough to be trusted with a firearm (when they were already trusted with the lives of all their passengers and crew members).

Charlie

On 02/10/2013 09:16 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:

Federal Flight Deck Officer

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program is run by the Federal Air Marshal Service with the aim of allowing volunteer pilots of commercial airline flights to carry firearms for the purpose of defending the flight deck against 9/11-style attacks.

Following the September 11 attacks in 2001, the Arming Pilots Against Terrorism Act, part of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 directed the Transportation Security Administration to develop the Federal Flight Deck Officer program as an additional layer of security.[1] Under this program, flight crew members are deputized Federal Law Enforcement Officers authorized by the Transportation Security Administration to use firearms to defend against acts of criminal violence or air piracy undertaken to gain control of their aircraft. A flight crew member may be a pilot, flight engineer or navigator assigned to the flight. Participants in the program are meant to remain anonymous, and while armed, are prohibited from sharing their participation except with select personnel on a need to know basis. Any pilot or flight engineer employed by a commercial airline is eligible to volunteer for the FFDO program. Program size quickly exceeded TSA expectations after the program was opened for volunteers in early 2003.

In December 2003, President George W. Bush signed into law legislation that expanded program eligibility to include cargo pilots and certain other flight crew.

Federal Flight Deck Officers are Sworn and Deputized Federal Law Enforcement officers commissioned by the Department of Homeland Security/ TSA Law Enforcement Division. Officers are trained on the use of firearms, use of force, legal issues, defensive tactics, the psychology of survival and program standard operating procedures. Flight crew members participating in the program are not eligible for compensation from the Federal Government for services provided as a Federal Flight Deck Officer.[2]

The TSA is accused of having a "deep, institutional opposition to the FFDO program" by the Airline Pilots Security Alliance.[3]



On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty funny. The gun & ammo manufacturers are loving the current political discussion. Gun owners (for the record, I own them) act like typical 'little guy' investors; they buy high & sell low. Most of us on this list are old enough to have seen at least 3 or 4 of these major gun control discussions over the decades (I remember the panic due to legislation after the Kennedy assassination), & 'after changes upon changes, we are more or less the same'.  A year from now, I predict that the only significant change in federal law will (might) be some type of background check that pretends to keep felons from buying guns.

A couple of political tidbits that some may not be aware of:

The Bush administration fought tooth & nail against allowing airline pilots to carry.
The Obama administration reversed the Bush era rules & made it legal to carry in national parks.

My conclusion would be to just relax & wait, & if I had a few weapons I wasn't really interested in any more, I'd put them on the market. :-)

Charlie

On 02/10/2013 08:38 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:
Am I the only one that finds it funny that I live in Texas but had to order ammo from California?  Go figure!


On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
 AR-7 for flights over remote territory.   Cheap, light, compact, amazingly accurate and carrying 350 rounds of .22 LR is easy.  Hey, it's for survival, not an armed conflict!   

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 9, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Dale_R <dale.rog@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't suppose the shortage on .40 has anything to do with various agencies of the the Federales buying up pretty much all the current capacity of the major manufacturers for the next year or more?  There are a lot of conspiracy theories floating around, but Occam's Razor suggests that the Feds just want to dry up the supply for everyone else.
Without ammo, a firearm is just an awkward club.

How much do you folks consider to be a reasonable supply to carry in your airplane?  For me, 40 - 50 rounds (Rifle=20rd/box; pistol=50/box) should be enough to see me  through a trek back to civilization.

Dale_R

On 2/9/2013 4:51 PM, Chris Barber wrote:
Sorry Brother, the department supplies my rounds. I must qualify on Valentines Day....hmmmm. Also, I carry a Glock 22, 40 cal. Yes. I am aware of the shortage 

It's overcast here too and is gonna be at least the next two days, my days off from rolling and patrolling. Sigh. So tomorrow I will try to repair my fence so my pup doesn't try to knock-up every bitch in heat in SE Houston. I can do that in the rain.  :-)  Yes, I need to fix him....poor pup....

Chris

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Feb 9, 2013, at 17:39, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris, 

Well, it is low IFR here in Austin-Lockhart today, so the wife and I went to the shooting range.  We would have stayed longer, but in case you haven't heard, there's a severe shortage of ammo virtually everywhere.  So, tell me Chris, what's the inside skinny on where to buy 9mm?   



-- 
Best Regards,
Dale_R
Cozy MKIV #497




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