X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6005193 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:00:15 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.40; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.72]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 80A811C000185 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dsb004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsb004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.13]) by mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id E9AF2E000098 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:59:37 -0500 (EST) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <50541.7d1fc22.3e206998@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:59:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_50541.7d1fc22.3e206998_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 56 X-Originating-IP: [24.14.64.174] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1357844379; bh=yZkKN3D7rtHDwVtBVt0sWSc6oOGhzy7BfKWAcIlkEqU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=YjRVwvpKHbPP6AW56HXt1Dah7l2VwydwngI4nZQM7bCfo5o+QCoqdSufBsK9qdjiE UKyCXSTAV2oaz0EKGTV8jBSqmWznEouKYLAJMEkK2VkzYTgqxK5lTu7ZdGo0SiRpZG p9KaZ+haIRL3Pe58IRZSISgWlNiNjX2HiZIze5s4= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:445484640:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294850ef0f990498 --part1_50541.7d1fc22.3e206998_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Just a thought, =20 Don't know what kind of wires you are using, however if they have a metal = =20 shield on the outside, sometimes there is unobservable arching between the= =20 inner wire and that shield which could cause the problem. If the problem= =20 increases as you ascend, it may be that the thinner air,with its lower=20 dielectric is allowing some arching somewhere where otherwise it doesn't h= appen.=20 (remember mooney, and others arching problems in their magnetos before=20 pressurizing them? ) =20 Rich =20 =20 In a message dated 1/9/2013 9:18:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, rob@mum.edu= =20 writes: Bill, Yes that is correct. I find it best to completely remove the wire to do=20 this test. They can be delecate so wiggle them gently in different directi= ons=20 while watching the ohm meter. Usually if there is a problem it is at the= =20 connector, all though it can be anywhere along the wire. The ignition wire= s=20 have a certain resistance per foot that you should look for. I don't know= =20 what that resistance would be because different brands of wires have=20 different specfications but as you check each wire you will get an Idea wh= at to=20 expect. While you have them off check every inch for damage sliding your= =20 fingers over the surface. See if you can feel any anomalys that might be h= idden=20 under the surface coating that may indicate a break or compromise of the= =20 wire in some way. I know you will find the problem eventually. Robert =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: _Bill Bradburry_ (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Robert,=20 I will check that the next time I am at the airport. I am using the stock= =20 Renesis wires and igniters. You just wiggled the wires with the VOM =20 connected??=20 Bill=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = =20 Behalf Of Rob Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup =20 Hi Bill, =20 Another thing you might check. =20 =20 I had a similer problem to yours in my fuel injected Ford V6 BD-4 with=20 Tracys EC2 and EM2. For about a year I was plagued, while flying, with a b= rief=20 miss with a jerk from the engine at random times even hours apart. It=20 would mostly happen at higher RPM's then cruise, but sometimes at cruise. = I=20 checked everything I could think of. =20 =20 My problem was that one or two of my ignition wires (MSD's 8.5mm Super=20 Conductor wire set, brand new no less) had some intermittent connectors. I= =20 discovered this by checking the resistance of each wire while working the= =20 connectors a little bit to see if the resistance fluctuated excessively or= even=20 became an open circuit. Once I fixed these intermittents my problem was=20 solved. =20 =20 =20 I know how unsettleing this can be while flying. I hope you find your =20 problem. =20 =20 Robert Bollinger =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- =20 =20 From: _Ernest Christley_ (mailto:echristley@att.net) =20 =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:38 AM =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup =20 =20 A problem that mimics a poorly wired VR sensor, but=20 =20 -only happens occasionally,=20 =20 -with various levels of "response" =20 -and is getting worse. =20 =20 Bill, if you haven't done so already, I would suggest changing the wiring= =20 to the VR sensor completely. It sounds to me like a textbook example of= =20 the worst sort of electronic malfunction you can have=E2=80=A6an intermitt= ent open. =20 You'll never find it under normal test conditions, and it will manifest at= =20 the most inopportune times. The only way to completely rule it out as a=20 failure scenario is to completely replace the circuit path. =20 =20 =20 =20 On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: No, I have the 2.85 gearbox. I have the MT electric prop, so I fly WOT=20 and use the prop to govern the engine speed. =20 I have changed the plugs with no effect. The mixture is fine when this is= =20 happening. Fuel pressure also. I had an incident once on take off like= =20 you describe where the plane was backfiring like crazy just after I lifted= =20 off. I had the mixture too rich. I dialed it back and everything smoothe= d=20 out. This is different. It doesn=E2=80=99t really backfire. It is a thu= mp and=20 it jerks the engine and plane. You can hear and feel it. It seems to be = a=20 single thump and it has varying degrees of violence. Some are just a=20 little miss and some are so bad it shakes everything. These are less freq= uent,=20 but they are bad enough that I don=E2=80=99t think they are good for the P= SRU,=20 prop, or engine mount.=20 That is why I have been bugging Tracy about the change for the EC-2. I= =20 have my fingers crossed that this will fix it. :>)=20 Bill B --part1_50541.7d1fc22.3e206998_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Just a thought,
 
Don't know what kind of wires you are using, however if they have a me= tal=20 shield on the outside, sometimes there is unobservable arching between the = inner=20 wire and that shield which could cause the problem. If the problem increase= s as=20 you ascend, it may be that the thinner air,with its lower dielectric is all= owing=20 some arching somewhere where otherwise it doesn't happen. (remember mooney,= and=20 others arching problems in their magnetos before pressurizing=20 them? )
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 1/9/2013 9:18:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, rob@mu= m.edu=20 writes:
=
Bill,
Yes that is correct. I find it best to c= ompletely=20 remove the wire to do this test. They can be delecate so wiggle them= =20 gently in different directions while watching the ohm meter. Usually= if=20 there is a problem it is at the connector, all though it can be anywhere = along=20 the wire. The ignition wires have a certain resistance per foot that= you=20 should look for. I don't know what that resistance would be because diffe= rent=20 brands of wires have different specfications but as you check each wire y= ou=20 will get an Idea what to expect. While you have them off check every inch= for=20 damage sliding your fingers over the surface. See if you can fe= el=20 any anomalys that might be hidden under the surface coating that may indi= cate=20 a break or compromise of the wire in some way.
I know you will find the problem=20 eventually.
Robert
 
 
----- Original Message -----
F= rom:=20 Bill Bradburry
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 201= 3 1:59=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroqui= p hose=20 changed to hiccup

Robert,=

I will check= that=20 the next time I am at the airport.  I am using the stock Renesis w= ires=20 and igniters.  You just wiggled the wires with the VOM=20 connected??

 <= /o:p>

Bill

 <= /o:p>

From:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 201= 3 12:51=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroqui= p hose=20 changed to hiccup

 

Hi=20 Bill,

Another thing you might= =20 check.

 

I had a similer problem t= o yours=20 in my fuel injected Ford V6 BD-4 with Tracys EC2 and EM2. For about a y= ear I=20 was plagued, while flying, with a brief miss with a jerk from= the=20 engine at random times even hours apart. It would mostly happen at= =20 higher RPM's then cruise, but sometimes at cruise. I checked everything= I=20 could think of.

 

My problem was that one o= r two=20 of my ignition wires (MSD's 8.5mm Super Conductor wi= re=20 set, brand new no less) had some intermittent connectors. I discovered = this=20 by checking the resistance of each wire while working the connectors a= =20 little bit to see if the resistance fluctuated excessively or even beca= me an=20 open circuit. Once I fixed these intermittents my problem was solved.= =20

 

I know how unsettleing th= is can=20 be while flying. I hope you find your=20 problem.

 

Robert=20 Bollinger

 

----- Original Message = -----=20

From= : = Ernest=20 Christley

To:<= /SPAN> Rotary motors in aircraft= =20

Sent= :=20 Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:38 AM

Subj= ect:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to=20 hiccup

 

A problem that mimics a poorly wired VR sen= sor,=20 but 

-only happens=20 occasionally, 

-with various levels of=20 "response"

-and is getting=20 worse.

 

Bill, if you haven't done so already, I wou= ld=20 suggest changing the wiring to the VR sensor completely.  It sou= nds=20 to me like a textbook example of the worst sort of electronic malfunc= tion=20 you can have=E2=80=A6an intermittent open.  You'll never find it= under normal=20 test conditions, and it will manifest at the most inopportune times.= =20  The only way to completely rule it out as a failure scenario is= to=20 completely replace the circuit path.

 

 

 

On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Bill Bradburry=20 wrote:



No, I have= the=20 2.85 gearbox.  I have the MT electric prop, so I fly WOT and use= the=20 prop to govern the engine speed. =20

I have cha= nged=20 the plugs with no effect.  The mixture is fine when this is=20 happening.  Fuel pressure also.  I had an incident once on = take=20 off like you describe where the plane was backfiring like crazy just = after=20 I lifted off.  I had the mixture too rich.  I dialed it bac= k and=20 everything smoothed out.  This is different.  It doesn=E2= =80=99t really=20 backfire.  It is a thump and it jerks the engine and plane. = ; You=20 can hear and feel it.  It seems to be a single thump and it has= =20 varying degrees of violence.  Some are just a little miss and so= me=20 are so bad it shakes everything.  These are less frequent, but t= hey=20 are bad enough that I don=E2=80=99t think they are good for the PSRU,= prop, or=20 engine mount.

That is wh= y I=20 have been bugging Tracy about= the=20 change for the EC-2.  I have my fingers crossed that this will f= ix=20 it.  :>)

Bill=20 B

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