X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from lincoln.lisco.com ([69.18.32.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6003927 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:17:59 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.18.32.37; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: from robertsdellxp (76-76-234-12.lisco.net [76.76.234.12]) by lincoln.lisco.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C324B2BEE9 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:17:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <867FED1F7E254811AD128A98AFB8594E@robertsdellxp> From: "Rob" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:17:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CDEEAE.B89B0620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CDEEAE.B89B0620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Yes that is correct. I find it best to completely remove the wire to do = this test. They can be delecate so wiggle them gently in different = directions while watching the ohm meter. Usually if there is a problem = it is at the connector, all though it can be anywhere along the wire. = The ignition wires have a certain resistance per foot that you should = look for. I don't know what that resistance would be because different = brands of wires have different specfications but as you check each wire = you will get an Idea what to expect. While you have them off check every = inch for damage sliding your fingers over the surface. See if you can = feel any anomalys that might be hidden under the surface coating that = may indicate a break or compromise of the wire in some way. I know you will find the problem eventually. Robert ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Robert, I will check that the next time I am at the airport. I am using the = stock Renesis wires and igniters. You just wiggled the wires with the = VOM connected?? =20 Bill =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup =20 Hi Bill, Another thing you might check. =20 I had a similer problem to yours in my fuel injected Ford V6 BD-4 with = Tracys EC2 and EM2. For about a year I was plagued, while flying, with a = brief miss with a jerk from the engine at random times even hours apart. = It would mostly happen at higher RPM's then cruise, but sometimes at = cruise. I checked everything I could think of. =20 My problem was that one or two of my ignition wires (MSD's 8.5mm Super = Conductor wire set, brand new no less) had some intermittent connectors. = I discovered this by checking the resistance of each wire while working = the connectors a little bit to see if the resistance fluctuated = excessively or even became an open circuit. Once I fixed these = intermittents my problem was solved.=20 =20 I know how unsettleing this can be while flying. I hope you find your = problem. =20 Robert Bollinger =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ernest Christley=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:38 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup =20 A problem that mimics a poorly wired VR sensor, but=20 -only happens occasionally,=20 -with various levels of "response" -and is getting worse. =20 Bill, if you haven't done so already, I would suggest changing the = wiring to the VR sensor completely. It sounds to me like a textbook = example of the worst sort of electronic malfunction you can have.an = intermittent open. You'll never find it under normal test conditions, = and it will manifest at the most inopportune times. The only way to = completely rule it out as a failure scenario is to completely replace = the circuit path. =20 =20 =20 On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: No, I have the 2.85 gearbox. I have the MT electric prop, so I fly = WOT and use the prop to govern the engine speed. =20 I have changed the plugs with no effect. The mixture is fine when = this is happening. Fuel pressure also. I had an incident once on take = off like you describe where the plane was backfiring like crazy just = after I lifted off. I had the mixture too rich. I dialed it back and = everything smoothed out. This is different. It doesn't really = backfire. It is a thump and it jerks the engine and plane. You can = hear and feel it. It seems to be a single thump and it has varying = degrees of violence. Some are just a little miss and some are so bad it = shakes everything. These are less frequent, but they are bad enough = that I don't think they are good for the PSRU, prop, or engine mount. That is why I have been bugging Tracy about the change for the EC-2. = I have my fingers crossed that this will fix it. :>) Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CDEEAE.B89B0620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
Yes that is correct. I find it best to = completely=20 remove the wire to do this test. They can be delecate so wiggle = them gently=20 in different directions while watching the ohm meter. Usually if = there is a=20 problem it is at the connector, all though it can be anywhere along the=20 wire. The ignition wires have a certain resistance per foot that = you should=20 look for. I don't know what that resistance would be because different = brands of=20 wires have different specfications but as you check each wire you will = get an=20 Idea what to expect. While you have them off check every inch for=20 damage sliding your fingers over the surface. See if you can = feel any=20 anomalys that might be hidden under the surface coating that may = indicate a=20 break or compromise of the wire in some way.
I know you will find the problem=20 eventually.
Robert
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, = 2013 1:59=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose=20 changed to hiccup

Robert,

I will = check that the=20 next time I am at the airport.  I am using the stock Renesis = wires and=20 igniters.  You just wiggled the wires with the VOM=20 connected??

 

Bill

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, = 2013 12:51=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose=20 changed to hiccup

 

Hi=20 Bill,

Another thing you might=20 check.

 

I had a similer problem = to yours=20 in my fuel injected Ford V6 BD-4 with Tracys EC2 and EM2. For about a = year I=20 was plagued, while flying, with a brief miss with a jerk = from the=20 engine at random times even hours apart. It would mostly happen = at higher=20 RPM's then cruise, but sometimes at cruise. I checked everything I = could think=20 of.

 

My problem was that one = or two=20 of my ignition wires (MSD's 8.5mm Super Conductor = wire set,=20 brand new no less) had some intermittent connectors. I discovered this = by=20 checking the resistance of each wire while working the connectors a = little bit=20 to see if the resistance fluctuated excessively or even became an open = circuit. Once I fixed these intermittents my problem was solved.=20

 

I know how unsettleing = this can be=20 while flying. I hope you find your = problem.

 

Robert=20 Bollinger

 

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Ernest = Christley

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:38 = AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to=20 hiccup

 

A problem that mimics a poorly wired VR = sensor,=20 but 

-only happens=20 occasionally, 

-with various levels of=20 "response"

-and is getting=20 worse.

 

Bill, if you haven't done so already, I = would=20 suggest changing the wiring to the VR sensor completely.  It = sounds to=20 me like a textbook example of the worst sort of electronic = malfunction you=20 can have=85an intermittent open.  You'll never find it under = normal test=20 conditions, and it will manifest at the most inopportune times. =  The=20 only way to completely rule it out as a failure scenario is to = completely=20 replace the circuit path.

 

 

 

On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:42 PM, = Bill Bradburry=20 wrote:



No, I = have the 2.85=20 gearbox.  I have the MT electric prop, so I fly WOT and use the = prop to=20 govern the engine speed.  =

I have = changed the=20 plugs with no effect.  The mixture is fine when this is=20 happening.  Fuel pressure also.  I had an incident once on = take=20 off like you describe where the plane was backfiring like crazy just = after I=20 lifted off.  I had the mixture too rich.  I dialed it back = and=20 everything smoothed out.  This is different.  It doesn=92t = really=20 backfire.  It is a thump and it jerks the engine and = plane.  You=20 can hear and feel it.  It seems to be a single thump and it has = varying=20 degrees of violence.  Some are just a little miss and some are = so bad=20 it shakes everything.  These are less frequent, but they are = bad enough=20 that I don=92t think they are good for the PSRU, prop, or engine=20 mount.

That is = why I have=20 been bugging Tracy = about the=20 change for the EC-2.  I have my fingers crossed that this will = fix=20 it.  :>)

Bill=20 = B

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