X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001804 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:14:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.39; envelope-from=bktrub@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.9]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 29F9A380000A7 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-due002c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-due002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.67.69]) by mtaomg-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id C7B5FE000081 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:14:23 -0500 (EST) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CFBC15697F71F0_9BC_A4A77_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37276-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.150.41 by webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.93) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:14:23 -0500 Message-Id: <8CFBC156962E17C-9BC-3331C@webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [50.46.150.41] Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:14:23 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1357690464; bh=L9+kMI9k25EqGCWRxfNDbCh6fg738akFPShqYOruAYI=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=A3WmwccG+01A0eSoyXCsc7356T6x4S0V4EKANzxOPY/Ve+gl0mM4YveANci3hE7OK EEldcheTyLuQwwR6eYzyq82im6ochiZv/Vi+Exu8BKsQ1iTVcuN4T91jWZK5A53hpu giPZVUNE15Q3y9gLTD+BO3i8JTZ5DRYRMrydoUhI= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:518688896:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290950ecb65f3e03 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CFBC15697F71F0_9BC_A4A77_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" You must have the 2.17/1 gearbox. I had some problems at that RPM due to th= e CAS's being wired with the wrong polarity. I could take off just fine, bu= t when the RPM climbed up around that area, I would get horrendous backfire= s and stumbles, and my shorts would become soiled. This would happen at abo= ut 250 feet on takeoff. I don't think that that is what your problem might = be, Since this just started and is getting worse, maybe a check of your spa= rk plugs? I wouldn't think it would be fuel starvation, but perhaps you cou= ld check your fuel pressure when this is happening. I can only think of it = being one of two things- ignition, or fuel. You can rule out compression fo= r obvious reasons.=20 Good luck, hope you find it soon. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:51 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Yes, it is happening at WOT, 2000 ft, 5800rpm. Staging was long past. =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] OnBehal= f Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 201312:03 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose changed to hiccup =20 Are you sure this sin's happening whenthe injectors stage? I had it happen = once while taking someone for a ride,didn't figure out what it was until af= ter I landed. =20 =20 BrianTrubee -----OriginalMessage----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 9:00 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version iscomplete. Don't know what vintage = your EC2 is but the early ones did nothave O2 sensor inputs and can't take = advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to the possible cause= of the hiccup though. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" wro= te: I went thru and cleaned up all my groundsand it seems to have fixed everyth= ing with the exception of the hiccup. =20 =20 Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgradeyet? I would= really like to try and see if that will fix thisproblem. My wife really d= oesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behal= f Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 20123:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 I currently have a separate ground fromeach of the batteries to a Nuckolls = =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point. Everything inside the cockpi= t grounds here. Also the fuel pumps andinjectors ground here. The coils g= round on the center iron. Thereare separate grounds from each battery to t= he PSRU plate on each side of thestarter. I have considered bringing two s= eparate grounds from the centeriron to the batteries just in case there is = resistance getting from the centeriron to the PSRU plate. I am also taking all my grounds apart tocheck for corrosion or anything tha= t seems that it might not be properlybonded. =20 I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional = =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is violent enough toshake the plane when it h= appens. It is bad enough that I am concernedthat it might be bad for the p= in in the PSRU. I am also wondering if itcould be the PSRU that has sheare= d the pin and is slipping? Someone onhere had that happen and I would real= ly appreciate a description of what thatsounded and felt like and also how = I could make certain that is not theproblem. No, I don=E2=80=99t want to d= ismantle the PSRU to check it unless thatseems to be the only way to check = it. =20 Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting theupgrade for the EC-2 tha= t might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? Ithink you had it done for = the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation?? =20 The second reason for going thru thegrounds is that I am having an intermit= tent problem with my GTX327 transponder,MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak auto= pilot shutting down. This seems to happenmore often when I key the mike on= my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is notrequired. It sometimes happen= s just out of the blue. Also most ofthe time, only the transponder shuts o= ff. Only sometimes does the movingmap and autopilot join in the fun. =20 Everybody tells me that it sounds like aground issue, hence I am going thru= the ground system.=20 =20 I welcome all opinions and input! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behal= f Of Tracy Sent: Saturday, December 08, 201210:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 Tying the engine parts together should notbe necessary but you still need a= separate ground from battery to airframeground (if metal) and your avionic= s ground point. Also separatefeeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator= and avionics. You can Usethe starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors= & fuel pumps to keep noisedown on the avionics bus. Tracy=20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Several months ago, after a discussionwith Tracy, Iran grounding straps fro= m each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of thestarter mount. I had = previously had the grounding strap running betweenthe center iron and the = =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. Tracy sug= gestedI move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block. Now I have the igniters grounded on thecenter iron and I am considering run= ning a ground strap from the center iron tothe batteries or trying to tie e= ach section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D togetherby running a w= ire between them. This would to be certain that the groundis good on the i= gniters. =20 Any opinions on this?? =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behal= f Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 20128:29 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 Bill As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rectto your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine wi= thoutproblems. I remember Tracyposting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in = the archives now. Andrew =20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, MarkSteitle wrote: Bill,=20 =20 You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causing th= is. =20 Mark S.=20 =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry w= rote: I am working on cleaning up my groundsystem and I noticed that I have several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anythingin the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have jumped?? Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is grounded to the engine. Bill B -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html =20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8CFBC15697F71F0_9BC_A4A77_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" You must have the 2.17/1 ge= arbox. I had some problems at that RPM due to the CAS's being wired with th= e wrong polarity. I could take off just fine, but when the RPM climbed up a= round that area, I would get horrendous backfires and stumbles, and my shor= ts would become soiled. This would happen at about 250 feet on takeoff. I d= on't think that that is what your problem might be, Since this just started= and is getting worse, maybe a check of your spark plugs? I wouldn't think = it would be fuel starvation, but perhaps you could check your fuel pressure= when this is happening. I can only think of it being one of two things- ig= nition, or fuel. You can rule out compression for obvious reasons. 

Good luck, hope you find it soon.

Brian Trubee


-----= Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:51 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup

Yes, it is happ= ening at WOT, 2000 ft, 5800 rpm.  Staging was long past.
 
Bill B
 
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairon= line.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2= 013 12:03 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose changed to hiccup
 
Are you sure = this sin's happening when the injectors stage? I had it happen once while taking someone for a ride, didn't figure out what it was until after I landed. 
 =
Brian Trubee

-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 9:00 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup
Yes, bench te= sting on the EC2 version is complete.  Don't know what vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did = not have O2 sensor inputs and can't take advantage of the closed loop modes.  That is unrelated to the possible cause of the hiccup though.<= /font>
 =
Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I went thru and= cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with the exception of the hiccup.&nbs= p;
 
Tracy<= /font>, have you finished the bench test= ing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife really doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!
 
Bill B
 
From: Rota= ry motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry<= br> Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
I currently hav= e a separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground= point.  Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.  Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.  The coils ground on the center iron.  The= re are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU plate on each side of th= e starter.  I have considered bringing two separate grounds from the cen= ter iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance getting from the cen= ter iron to the PSRU plate.<= /span>
I am also takin= g all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bonded.
 
I am doing this= for two reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is vi= olent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It is bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.  I am also wondering if = it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping?  Someone o= n here had that happen and I would really appreciate a description of what th= at sounded and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not the problem.  No, I don=E2=80=99t want to dismantle the PSRU to check it u= nless that seems to be the only way to check it.
 
Also, Tracy, ho= w are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? = ; I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementat= ion??
 
The second reas= on for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 transpon= der, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down.  This seems to= happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is = not required.  It sometimes happens just out of the blue.  Also most = of the time, only the transponder shuts off.  Only sometimes does the mov= ing map and autopilot join in the fun.
 
Everybody tells= me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system.
 
I welcome all o= pinions and input!
 
Bill B
 
From: Rota= ry motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 10:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
Tying the engine parts= together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator and avionics.  You can Us= e the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep n= oise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at= 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <b= bradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Several months = ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of t= he starter mount.  I had previously had the grounding strap running betwe= en the center iron and the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on= the firewall.  Tracy suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.
Now I have the = igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iro= n to the batteries or trying to tie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich= =E2=80=9D together by running a wire between them.  This would to be certain that the gro= und is good on the igniters.<= /span>
 
Any opinions on= this??
 
Bill B
 
From: Rota= ry motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2= 012 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
Bill

As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rect to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine withou= t problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives now= .

Andrew
 
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at= 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
Bill, 
 
You may want to check = your engine ground.  Starter current may be causing this.
 
Mark S. 
 
  
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at= 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <bb= radburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I am working on cleani= ng up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt=
like it had an electrical spark exit from it.  I have not found anythi= ng in
the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it?  Do= I
have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill B


--
Homepage:  htt= p://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/flyrotary/List.html
 
 
 
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