X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c2) with ESMTP id 5884687 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:44:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=KMfY/S5o c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=AHkS0RJitIMA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=H6tFOhmL-s0A:10 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=KueuVAdfR-pm9ycH06QA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=yDmu4Tl1at1zTzbt:21 a=EPeYC48owMwPgPu5:21 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=1cgkO-yjAAAA:8 a=XLhhRn4TXs5RvvOaC-EA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=hdtNyv15EZAA:10 a=I1Rks_BT01oA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=GsXjCUuc9WRWC7Op:21 a=w-IDEknznv6A134P:21 a=7LCaFr520-uqZMc9:21 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:61653] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 05/5F-01425-E8497A05; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:43:42 +0000 Message-ID: <4417BCED52AA4E96841088D1E3B6A676@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] renesis injectors Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:43:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01CDC49F.9FD36D50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CDC49F.9FD36D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Steve, I attempted to verify your math but believe I am missing a = crucial factor - injector opening time at 6500 rpm Check my math: 10.6 gal/hr =3D 10.6/60 =3D 0.17666 gal/second =3D 0.17666/1000 =3D = 0.00017666 gal/msec flow for all four injectors combined for an "average" of 0.00017666/4 =3D 0.000044166 gal/msec per single = injector Taking 0.000044166 * 4(injectors) =3D 0.00017666 gal/msec =3D = 0.00017666*1000 =3D 0.17666 gal/sec * 60 sec/1 hr =3D 10.596 gal/hr, so = that checks Now since there was no different opening times given for the injectors = at 6500 rpm, I have to assume the opening time was the same as at 5265 = rpm (4.4 msec - which is not likely to be correct). But, following this = assumption - then the increase for the flow at 6500 rpm is simply the = ratio of 6500/5265*10.6 gal/hr =3D 13.086 gph a bit short of the 20 = gph figure. =20 So , I strongly suspect the injector opening time would increase at the = higher rpm (it does on my rotary) which would account for the increased = flow - did you happen to measure the injector opening time at 6500 = rpm?. =20 Ed From: Steven W. Boese=20 Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 1:26 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] renesis injectors Charlie, My Renesis engine on the test stand uses the same injectors that Richard = has. Today, I recorded some data that should indicate whether or not = these injectors might work for your application. At 23" MAP, fuel = pressure of 40 psi, and 5265 RPM, the fuel flow was 10.6 gal/hr and the = pulse width on all four injectors was 4.4 ms. From this data, it = appears that those injectors should support a fuel flow of slightly over = 20 gal/hr at 6500 RPM with an injector duty cycle of less than 80%. It = would be good if you (or anyone else) would independently check if my = calculation is reasonable. Steve =20 Hi Richard, The only info I could find on the green ones seems to indicate that they = are 230cc. I can't find numbers for the brown, but based on the model = number, they are probably slightly larger. I suspect, but don't actually = know, that I need 400+cc(normally aspirated Renesis). The yellows are = somewhere between 380 & 430 cc, depending on where you look & what = pressure they run at. Thanks for checking, & if it turns out that my research is wrong on the = flow figures, we'll need to talk further. :-) Charlie Charlie, are you still looking for injectors?=20 Would the ones in the picture of any help? They are out of a 2009 2nd Gen Renesis. The numbers are: green 827 12 , = 297500-1220 . Brown 827 08 , 297500-1230 . I can not interpret these number.=20 Richard Sohn N2071U No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2629/5892 - Release Date: = 11/13/12 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CDC49F.9FD36D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi  Steve, I attempted to verify your math = but=20 believe I am missing a crucial factor - injector opening time at 6500=20 rpm
 
Check my math:
 
10.6 gal/hr =3D 10.6/60 =3D 0.17666 gal/second = =3D 0.17666/1000=20 =3D 0.00017666 gal/msec flow for all four injectors = combined
for an "average" of 0.00017666/4 =3D 0.000044166 = gal/msec=20 per single injector
 
Taking 0.000044166 * 4(injectors) =3D 0.00017666 = gal/msec =3D=20 0.00017666*1000 =3D 0.17666 gal/sec * 60 sec/1 hr =3D 10.596 gal/hr, so = that=20 checks
 
 
Now since there was no different opening times = given for=20 the injectors at 6500 rpm, I have to assume the opening = time was the=20 same as at 5265 rpm (4.4 msec - which is not likely to = be=20 correct).  But, following this assumption - then the increase = for the=20 flow at 6500 rpm is simply the ratio of   6500/5265*10.6 = gal/hr =3D=20 13.086 gph a bit short of the 20 gph figure. 
 
So , I strongly suspect the injector opening = time would=20 increase at the higher rpm (it does on my rotary) which would account = for the=20 increased flow  - did you happen to measure the injector opening = time at=20 6500 rpm?. 
 
Ed
 
From: Steven W. Boese
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 1:26 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] renesis injectors

Charlie,

 

My Renesis engine on the test stand uses = the same=20 injectors that Richard has.  Today, I recorded some data that = should=20 indicate whether or not these injectors might work for your=20 application.  At 23" MAP, fuel pressure of 40 = psi, and 5265 RPM,=20 the fuel flow was 10.6 gal/hr and the pulse width on all four injectors = was 4.4=20 ms.  From this data, it appears that those injectors should support = a fuel=20 flow of slightly over 20 gal/hr at 6500 RPM with an injector duty cycle = of less=20 than 80%.  It would be good if you (or anyone else) would = independently check if my calculation is reasonable.

 

Steve

 

 

Hi Richard,

The only info I could find on = the green=20 ones seems to indicate that they are 230cc. I can't find numbers for the = brown,=20 but based on the model by Text-Enhance"=20 href=3D"http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/59224.html?Langu= age=3D#"=20 in_rurl=3D"http://i.trkjmp.com/click?v=3DVVM6MjgxMTc6NDpudW1iZXI6NmU2NTdl= N2NhMzZhYTcyN2IwNDMxODU3NjA3MWJlMGU6ei0xMDQxLTkxNTQ1OmxhbmNhaXJvbmxpbmUub= mV0OjIxMzYwOmNjZDE3MzI1MjI3OWFkYjg2YWMwMmY2MzhmNzI0NDBk">number, they are probably slightly larger. I suspect, but don't = actually=20 know, that I need 400+cc(normally aspirated Renesis). The yellows are = somewhere=20 between 380 & 430 cc, by Text-Enhance"=20 href=3D"http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/59224.html?Langu= age=3D#"=20 in_rurl=3D"http://i.trkjmp.com/click?v=3DVVM6Mjc1MzQ6NDpkZXBlbmRpbmc6NDgz= NzNjNjk3NjkwYzRlNTRhZGRjYjRjZDc1ZDgxZGQ6ei0xMDQxLTkxNTQ1OmxhbmNhaXJvbmxpb= mUubmV0OjIwOTgxOjVhYjM1OGFlZjdjNzg2MTcxNGMxZjkxYjkzODY4Nzhj">depending on where you look & what pressure they run=20 at.

Thanks for checking, & if it = turns out=20 that my research is wrong on the flow figures, we'll need to talk = further.=20 :-)

Charlie

Charlie,
are you still looking for injectors?
Would the ones in the picture of any = help?
They are out of a 2009 2nd Gen Renesis. The numbers = are: green=20 827 12 , 297500-1220 .
Brown 827 08 , 297500-1230 .
Richard = Sohn
N2071U

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2793 / = Virus=20 Database: 2629/5892 - Release Date: 11/13/12

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