X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5721036 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:01:44 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.56; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id pDFj1j0020lTkoCA6E17i5; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 02:01:07 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id pE171j00F2yr1eL8QE17Gr; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 02:01:07 +0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 02:01:07 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <187404961.763247.1345514467104.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 CHT ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_763246_1925779222.1345514467050" X-Originating-IP: [::ffff:71.206.108.115] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.13_GA_2944 (ZimbraWebClient - IE8 (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) ------=_Part_763246_1925779222.1345514467050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK,,OK=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 get it ,,I'll do a lot more testing & moni= toring of the CHT set-up as is, check & see if this is worth suggesting to = others to install, very simple, Tracy's EM2 or 3=C2=A0 has 4 CHT inputs rea= dy to use.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Will now be on test flight monitor list for each dai= ly sortie.=C2=A0=C2=A0 David=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Anderson" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:29:52 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 CHT ?=20 Ok, Mark, I get your viewpoint. =C2=A0I can see where temp rise would be de= tected=20 earliest that way and perhaps permit you to throttle back and reduce power= =20 before perhaps damage occurs. =C2=A0Be interesting to see what David ends u= p=20 with.=20 Ed=20 --------------------------------------------------=20 From: "Mark Steitle" =20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:15 AM=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 CHT ?=20 > Ed,=20 >=20 > I think the idea is you'll get a more accurate measurement at the=20 > combustion surface of each rotor rather than measuring the temp of the=20 > coolant that has already blended with other coolant in the system.=20 > Its my understanding that the coolant temp will be higher around the=20 > plug area than elsewhere, so if you operate near the boiling point of=20 > your coolant, you would be able to tell it sooner rather than later.=20 > Still, if you know the safe high-temp limit, it seems you would get a=20 > better reading off the rotor housing liner than from the coolant.=20 >=20 > If you drill/tap each rotor housing you can see how hard each rotor is=20 > working, similar to EGT's. =C2=A0CHT can serve as a cross-check to EGT.= =20 >=20 > Also, monitoring cooling system pressure should alert you to an=20 > imminent boilover event. =C2=A0But you already knew that. =C2=A0;-)=20 >=20 >=20 > My 2 cents,=20 > Mark=20 >=20 > On 8/20/12, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 >> I agree, Mark, that your suggestion would probably get you as close to a= n=20 >> equivalent CHT as we can get.=20 >>=20 >> But, I'm still not understanding what that would usefully provide that i= s=20 >> worth more than your coolant temps.=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0I presume that if for some reason the engine temperature were to r= apidly=20 >> increase (perhaps due to detonation or other combustion events) that the= =20 >> CHT=20 >> reading would provide quicker information on the condition than would th= e=20 >> coolant temp so perhaps you could take corrective action before damage.= =20 >> Might be a comfort factor knowing "CHT" =C2=A0if using forced induction = on a=20 >> rotary as things can happen pretty fast when at high boost levels.=20 >>=20 >> Ed=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Mark Steitle=20 >> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 8:48 PM=20 >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 CHT ?=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Seems that this will tell you the coolant temp near the plugs, but not= =20 >> the=20 >> CHT. =C2=A0If you want to measure the CHT, you'll need to locate a=20 >> thermo-couple=20 >> down near the steel liner. =C2=A0You can do this by drilling a small hol= e down=20 >> into the web adjacent to the leading plug, stopping at the steel liner.= =20 >> Then insert a thermo-couple down into the hole so that it is touching th= e=20 >> steel liner. =C2=A0Now you're reading the temps nearest the combustion= =20 >> chamber,=20 >> closest thing we have to CHT.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Mark=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:02 AM, wrote:=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0 Sounds like a plan to me Ed, should have time Sun. to do. =C2=A0D= avid=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------=20 >> =C2=A0 From: "Ed Anderson" =20 >> =C2=A0 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 >> =C2=A0 Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:54:35 AM=20 >> =C2=A0 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 =C2=A0CHT ?=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0 I think I would run the engine at operational rpms (>5000) and wa= tch=20 >> the=20 >> coolant/oil temperatures - when they got to my maximum limit, I would=20 >> check=20 >> the CHT reading and perhaps add 50 degrees for the limit (to start with)= .=20 >> If I got a lot of false alarms at that margin I would try another 50 deg= .=20 >> Just a WAG.=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0 Ed=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0 From: hoursaway1@comcast.net=20 >> =C2=A0 Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 10:20 PM=20 >> =C2=A0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 >> =C2=A0 Subject: [FlyRotary] EM2 CHT ?=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0 What are we using for high temp numbers from the CHT sensors on t= he 13B=20 >> rotary, I have the under the spark plug style sensors bolted to each=20 >> rotor=20 >> housing in some factory threaded holes just above the spark plugs, not= =20 >> really the hottest spot but the holes were already in place so I KISSed= =20 >> it &=20 >> moved on, now I need to set my high temp warning limit & do not know wha= t=20 >> to=20 >> use. =C2=A0Possibly do an eng. run with upper cowl off & check bolt/sens= or=20 >> temp=20 >> with a lazer temp gun at about 4000 RPM =C2=A0& go another 50 deg. highe= r?=20 >> Ideas? =C2=A0David R. Cook =C2=A0RV6A Rotary=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C2=A0 No virus found in this message.=20 >> =C2=A0 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >> =C2=A0 Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5206 - Release Date:= =20 >> 08/17/12=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> No virus found in this message.=20 >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/1= 2=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: =C2=A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub:=20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 >=20 >=20 > -----=20 > No virus found in this message.=20 > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12= =20 >=20 --=20 Homepage: =C2=A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: =C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html=20 ------=_Part_763246_1925779222.1345514467050 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>OK,,OK&nb= sp;   I  get it ,,I'll do a lot more testing & monitorin= g of the CHT set-up as is, check & see if this is worth suggesting to o= thers to install, very simple, Tracy's EM2 or 3  has 4 CHT inputs read= y to use.   Will now be on test flight monitor list for each dail= y sortie.   David

From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: = "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:= Monday, August 20, 2012 11:29:52 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= EM2 CHT ?

Ok, Mark, I get your viewpoint.  I can see where tem= p rise would be detected
earliest that way and perhaps permit you to th= rottle back and reduce power
before perhaps damage occurs.  Be int= eresting to see what David ends up
with.

Ed

-------------= -------------------------------------
From: "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@= gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:15 AM
To: "Rotary moto= rs in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary]= Re: EM2 CHT ?

> Ed,
>
> I think the idea is you'll g= et a more accurate measurement at the
> combustion surface of each ro= tor rather than measuring the temp of the
> coolant that has already = blended with other coolant in the system.
> Its my understanding that= the coolant temp will be higher around the
> plug area than elsewher= e, so if you operate near the boiling point of
> your coolant, you wo= uld be able to tell it sooner rather than later.
> Still, if you know= the safe high-temp limit, it seems you would get a
> better reading = off the rotor housing liner than from the coolant.
>
> If you d= rill/tap each rotor housing you can see how hard each rotor is
> work= ing, similar to EGT's.  CHT can serve as a cross-check to EGT.
>=
> Also, monitoring cooling system pressure should alert you to an> imminent boilover event.  But you already knew that.  ;-)>
>
> My 2 cents,
> Mark
>
> On 8/20/12,= Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>> I agree, = Mark, that your suggestion would probably get you as close to an
>>= ; equivalent CHT as we can get.
>>
>> But, I'm still not = understanding what that would usefully provide that is
>> worth mo= re than your coolant temps.
>>
>>  I presume that if= for some reason the engine temperature were to rapidly
>> increas= e (perhaps due to detonation or other combustion events) that the
>&= gt; CHT
>> reading would provide quicker information on the condit= ion than would the
>> coolant temp so perhaps you could take corre= ctive action before damage.
>> Might be a comfort factor knowing "= CHT"  if using forced induction on a
>> rotary as things can = happen pretty fast when at high boost levels.
>>
>> Ed>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Mark Steitl= e
>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 8:48 PM
>> To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 CHT ?
>&g= t;
>>
>> Seems that this will tell you the coolant temp n= ear the plugs, but not
>> the
>> CHT.  If you want = to measure the CHT, you'll need to locate a
>> thermo-couple
&= gt;> down near the steel liner.  You can do this by drilling a smal= l hole down
>> into the web adjacent to the leading plug, stopping= at the steel liner.
>> Then insert a thermo-couple down into the = hole so that it is touching the
>> steel liner.  Now you're r= eading the temps nearest the combustion
>> chamber,
>> c= losest thing we have to CHT.
>>
>>
>> Mark
&g= t;>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:02 AM, <hoursa= way1@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>   Sounds like a pl= an to me Ed, should have time Sun. to do.  David
>>
>&g= t;
>> ------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------
>>   From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@car= olina.rr.com>
>>   To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net>
>>   Sent: Saturday, August 18, = 2012 6:54:35 AM
>>   Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2  CHT ?=
>>
>>
>>   I think I would run the engine = at operational rpms (>5000) and watch
>> the
>> coola= nt/oil temperatures - when they got to my maximum limit, I would
>&g= t; check
>> the CHT reading and perhaps add 50 degrees for the lim= it (to start with).
>> If I got a lot of false alarms at that marg= in I would try another 50 deg.
>> Just a WAG.
>>
>&= gt;   Ed
>>
>>
>>   From: hoursaway1@c= omcast.net
>>   Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 10:20 PM
>= ;>   To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>   Subject: [Fly= Rotary] EM2 CHT ?
>>
>>
>>   What are we us= ing for high temp numbers from the CHT sensors on the 13B
>> rotar= y, I have the under the spark plug style sensors bolted to each
>>= ; rotor
>> housing in some factory threaded holes just above the s= park plugs, not
>> really the hottest spot but the holes were alre= ady in place so I KISSed
>> it &
>> moved on, now I = need to set my high temp warning limit & do not know what
>> = to
>> use.  Possibly do an eng. run with upper cowl off &= check bolt/sensor
>> temp
>> with a lazer temp gun at a= bout 4000 RPM  & go another 50 deg. higher?
>> Ideas? &nb= sp;David R. Cook  RV6A Rotary
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>   No virus found in this message.
&= gt;>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>   Version: 201= 2.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5206 - Release Date:
>> 08/17/12<= BR>>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this mess= age.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2= 197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12
>>
>= ;
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Arch= ive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this messag= e.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Viru= s Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12
>

--
Homepa= ge:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mai= l.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
------=_Part_763246_1925779222.1345514467050--