X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.163] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5720002 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:07:44 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.163; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.11]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 29D5B3800CEE5 for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mob004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mob004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.194.205]) by mtaomg-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 001BBE000095 for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:06:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Full-name: Lehanover Message-ID: <314f2.630b51f1.3d63ba8d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: "O" rings?? was: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil leaking from betwee... To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_314f2.630b51f1.3d63ba8d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-Originating-IP: [173.88.30.23] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1345478798; bh=VWHym6O4FaoG1+fyJYER2mge2weD+NP3hatTK6Ja6YM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kiEIdTEQOyHJC/Cvea+VqEGrvSNf9IynXBnEG70WuNaosvKnW+Z2qHBlXi9o6f2CD JAsUAN5iBsHJF8fw6170fkqbrpHke9CGXIfpUmecDyMnm3o6bpI0pu5o3prAZfuJBI jc0UxFKOAoGPMxLbRxwP9kffX/LeFSdbDHgWLlpM= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:487610880:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290b5032608d7fe0 --part1_314f2.630b51f1.3d63ba8d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That remember this or remember that from a build even a few days old will just drive you mad. The good news is that a missing "O" ring from the dowel gallery will cause a running oil leak from the housing involved as soon as oil temperature comes up the first time. So that is not the problem. A seep from the legs, or area of the housing below the water "O" ring down to the pan rail is usually the location that is suspect. The factory goops up the aluminum in that area and hopes for the best outcome. The goop is very similar to silicone. I use 100% GE tub and tile caulk. 99.9% of that is squeezed out when you torque up the stack. There are other products that may or do, work as well, if you don't like silicone. Permatex non hardening is one. The expensive blue stuff from England also works. Used to seal Hewland gear sets together after each gear change. The spray on gold gasket maker works fine but is messy. Do not use solvents to clean the engine after assembly. It can remove some of the silicone. Just soap and water. When you assemble engines, wipe on a line of sealant from the pan rail to the water "O" ring groove, and into the groove a bit. Won't hurt a thing and will never leak. When you finish torqueing up the stack, check to make sure sealant squeezed out of both sides of each leg, and the pan rail. Scrape it off with a yummy stick. Craft department at Walmart. There you go. No more leaks. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 8/20/2012 11:29:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: Well, I'm with you - do the retorque first, that may fix the seep. IF not then I guess other alternatives will have to be take, Chris {:>) Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ernest Christley" Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:12 AM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: "O" rings?? was: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil leaking from between plates > Ed Anderson wrote: >> Sounds like progress, Ernest. >> >> However, I'm not certain the equation of oil spitting to power. The oil >> pressure should remain fairly constant from 2000- above rpm. Unless you >> are referring to perhaps the plates flexing more due to the increased >> power? >> >> I think re-torquing the bolts would be the first step - who knows that >> might fix the problem. >> >> I presume you did place the "O" rings over the alignment "tubes" >> between the plates that carry the oil when you assembled the engine? >> > > Hmmm.....? > Certainly, I would have. > I seem to remember doing that. > But. Did I? > > Crap. > > OK. Let's think this out. > I THINK that I used all the parts when putting the engine together. > I KNOW that I did NOT perform the extensive re-torquing that Lynn > recommends from his experience with loose engines when > it isn't done. > > So, my course of action will be to do a tear down to reach the case bolts, > and measure how much they move with a > re-torque. Given the leak is more of just a seep on the left side, even a > 1/4 turn on a bolt would probably be enough > to seal it up. If I get an additional 1/4 turn on any left side bolt, > wash the engine down, bolt it back together, and > call it fixed until I see any additional seeping to prove otherwise. If I > do see any more seeping, I'll pretend my name > is Chris and tear the whole engine down. 8*) > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12 > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --part1_314f2.630b51f1.3d63ba8d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That remember this or remember that from a build even a few days old w= ill=20 just drive you mad. The good news is that a missing "O" ring from the dowel= =20 gallery will cause a running oil leak from the housing involved as soon as = oil=20 temperature comes up the first time. So that is not the problem. A seep fro= m the=20 legs, or area of the housing below the water "O" ring down to the pan rail = is=20 usually the location that is suspect.
 
The factory goops up the aluminum in that area and hopes for the best= =20 outcome. The goop is very similar to silicone. I use 100% GE tub and tile c= aulk.=20 99.9% of that is squeezed out when you torque up the stack.
 
There are other products that may or do, work as well, if you don't li= ke=20 silicone. Permatex non hardening is one. The expensive blue stuff from Engl= and=20 also works. Used to seal Hewland gear sets together after each gear change.= =20  The spray on gold gasket maker works fine but is messy.  
 
Do not use solvents to clean the engine after assembly. It can remove = some=20 of the silicone. Just soap and water.
 
When you assemble engines, wipe on a line of sealant from the pan rail= to=20 the water "O" ring groove, and into the groove a bit. Won't hurt a thing an= d=20 will never leak.
 
When you finish torqueing up the stack, check to make sure sealant squ= eezed=20 out of both sides of each leg, and the pan rail. Scrape it off with a yummy= =20 stick. Craft department at Walmart.
There you go. No more leaks.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 8/20/2012 11:29:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
= Well,=20 I'm with you - do the retorque first, that may fix the seep.  IF not= =20
then I guess other alternatives will have to be take, Chris=20 {:>)

Ed

------------------------------------------------= --
From:=20 "Ernest Christley" <echristley@att.net>
Sent: Monday, August 20,= 2012=20 11:12 AM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: "O"=20 rings??  was: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil leaking from
between=20 plates

> Ed Anderson wrote:
>> Sounds like progress,= =20 Ernest.
>>
>> However, I'm not certain the equation of = oil=20 spitting to power.  The oil
>> pressure should remain fairl= y=20 constant from 2000- above rpm.  Unless you
>> are referring= to=20 perhaps the plates flexing more due to the increased
>>=20 power?
>>
>> I think re-torquing the bolts would be the= =20 first step - who knows that
>> might fix the=20 problem.
>>
>> I presume you did place the "O" rings ov= er=20 the alignment  "tubes"
>> between the plates that carry the= oil=20 when you assembled the engine?
>>
>
> Hmmm.....?
= >=20 Certainly, I would have.
> I seem to remember doing that.
>= =20 But.  Did I?
>
> Crap.
>
> OK.  Let's t= hink=20 this out.
> I THINK that I used all the parts when putting the engi= ne=20 together.
> I KNOW that I did NOT perform the extensive re-torquing= that=20 Lynn
> recommends from his experience with loose engines when
&= gt;=20 it isn't done.
>
> So, my course of action will be to do a te= ar=20 down to reach the case bolts,
> and measure how much they move wit= h=20 a
> re-torque.  Given the leak is more of just a seep on the l= eft=20 side, even a
> 1/4 turn on a bolt would probably be enough
>= to=20 seal it up.  If I get an additional 1/4 turn on any left side bolt,= =20
> wash the engine down, bolt it back together, and
> call it= =20 fixed until I see any additional seeping to prove otherwise.  If I= =20
> do see any more seeping, I'll pretend my name
> is Chris a= nd=20 tear the whole engine down.  8*)
>
>
>
>
= >=20 --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and= =20 UnSub:
>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>= ;
>=20 -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG -=20 www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Re= lease=20 Date: 08/20/12
>

--
Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--part1_314f2.630b51f1.3d63ba8d_boundary--