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[63.208.148.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id nk3sm3064358pbc.27.2012.08.16.10.34.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <502D2F34.90703@medialantern.com> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 13:34:44 -0400 From: Chad Robinson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft CC: Bill Bradburry Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pump replaced References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030607030405020108050209" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk92pTYvQm8ddx45b8qYo4juKRUyDVDquYaYClntjRv84qo5qiu9+wrMRruNjq5WQpsYTCL This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030607030405020108050209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe with his new engine he changed something, but last time I looked any level difference in his sump wasn't for "reserve" purposes. It was just how he mounted his pumps (and perhaps a small - 1"? - difference to give each pump's filter "sock" a look at different fuel). In defense of the Subaru engine, I've owned a lot of cars with these and can say they're nothing like a Lycosaurus. They're very stable, compact, almost vibration-free, and really hard to kill (I ran my first Subie 50k miles without an oil change when I was just a "stupid kid", blew the head gasket, and ran it another 10k with a blown head before I managed to kill it). This is a very advanced, modern engine design that gets great mileage, takes a turbo easily, and recent versions have direct-port injection, variable valve timing, and so on. I still prefer a rotary, but this would absolutely be my second choice. At least if you do have to replace a head, it won't cost you several thousand bucks! In fact, if somebody had products like Tracy's RD-1B and EC3 available for it, I would almost certainly have built around it instead of the rotary. I think its lower/wider profile would have fit better under my cowl. On 8/16/2012 12:55 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > Chris, > > Motorcycles have a reserve because they don't normally have a fuel > gage. This keeps you from having an engine stoppage out in the middle > of nowhere and no way to know about it before hand and no way to get > to a station. With an airplane it is not generally recommended that > you have an engine stoppage. > > If Al Wick has built a reserve into his plane, my esteem for him as a > risk analyst has taken a drop. What that will cause is he will be > increasing the number of gallons of unusable fuel and he will have to > pay to carry them around everywhere he flies. He will have to have an > engine stoppage in order to get any use out of the system. Planning > for that in an airplane is just not well considered! Some less > moderate than I might even call it stupid! > > As far as the rotary vs. Subaru goes, why would you go to the effort > and expense to install an alternative horizontally opposed piston > engine when Lycosaurus and Continental make pretty good ones for > airplanes and they can be installed in less than a week in a homebuilt > plane. Every part you build to install an alternative engine gives > you one more failure possibility. You can buy proven parts to install > aircraft engines. > > Bill B > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Chris Barber > *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:04 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pump replaced > > I am using two fuel pumps. The Aux was always quieter. Now they > sound about the same. I guess since, IIRC, the primary was always > louder I "assumed" it was normal and was just limited to the > individual pump. > > I was just reviewing Al Wick's sight. He hates the rotary (ok, that > may be too strong, but he is not a fan). He is using a Subaru. I was > looking at his sump tank. He is using in the tank pumps, which I do > not wish to do as of right now. However, something he did which I > did kinda like was that he had his pumps drawing from different levels > in the tank, like my motorcycle does for it reserve. That way, if the > primary pumps runs dry, you can switch to the second pump and have a > bit more fuel....hopefully at least enough to pull your head out and > get on the ground. This seems pretty easy, especially with inline > pumps, to do and like a good idea. Seems as if you would just have to > have one pump out location higher than the other and you have a bit of > a reserve. Yeah, you should be paying attention to fuel management but > this seems like some cheap back up. However, I could be > missing something as currently I am feeding both pumps from the same > outlet. Thoughts? > > Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on > behalf of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:15 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pump replaced > > Chris, > > Is there a difference in sound between the new pump and the old one > you are still using? I think that they should both sound the same. > Mine do. > > Bill B > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Chris Barber > *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:43 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] fuel pump replaced > > I replaced my faulty fuel pump. The new pump is MUCH more quite. I > suspect the old one was on the way to failure for a while and finally > when belly up. It was really noisy. When I took it off I applied > power to both independently and the old one was just plain dead. > > I hope I have addressed the few gremlins that has kept me on the > ground the last few weeks and will get to fly later today. > > FWIW. > > Chris Barber > > HoustonKEFD > > Velocity SE > --------------030607030405020108050209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Maybe with his new engine he changed something, but last time I looked any level difference in his sump wasn't for "reserve" purposes. It was just how he mounted his pumps (and perhaps a small - 1"? - difference to give each pump's filter "sock" a look at different fuel).

In defense of the Subaru engine, I've owned a lot of cars with these and can say they're nothing like a Lycosaurus. They're very stable, compact, almost vibration-free, and really hard to kill (I ran my first Subie 50k miles without an oil change when I was just a "stupid kid", blew the head gasket, and ran it another 10k with a blown head before I managed to kill it). This is a very advanced, modern engine design that gets great mileage, takes a turbo easily, and recent versions have direct-port injection, variable valve timing, and so on.

I still prefer a rotary, but this would absolutely be my second choice. At least if you do have to replace a head, it won't cost you several thousand bucks! In fact, if somebody had products like Tracy's RD-1B and EC3 available for it, I would almost certainly have built around it instead of the rotary. I think its lower/wider profile would have fit better under my cowl.

On 8/16/2012 12:55 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote:

Chris,

 

Motorcycles have a reserve because they don’t normally have a fuel gage.  This keeps you from having an engine stoppage out in the middle of nowhere and no way to know about it before hand and no way to get to a station.  With an airplane it is not generally recommended that you have an engine stoppage.

 

If Al Wick has built a reserve into his plane, my esteem for him as a risk analyst has taken a drop.  What that will cause is he will be increasing the number of gallons of unusable fuel and he will have to pay to carry them around everywhere he flies.  He will have to have an engine stoppage in order to get any use out of the system.  Planning for that in an airplane is just not well considered!  Some less moderate than I might even call it stupid!

 

As far as the rotary vs. Subaru goes, why would you go to the effort and expense to install an alternative horizontally opposed piston engine when Lycosaurus and Continental make pretty good ones for airplanes and they can be installed in less than a week in a homebuilt plane.  Every part you build to install an alternative engine gives you one more failure possibility.  You can buy proven parts to install aircraft engines.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Chris Barber
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:04 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pump replaced

 

I am using two fuel pumps.  The Aux was always quieter.  Now they sound about the same.  I guess since, IIRC, the primary was always louder I "assumed" it was normal and was just limited to the individual pump.

 

I was just reviewing Al Wick's sight. He hates the rotary (ok, that may be too strong, but he is not a fan).  He is using a Subaru.  I was looking at his sump tank.  He is using in the tank pumps, which I do not wish to do as of right now.  However, something he did which I did kinda like was that he had his pumps drawing from different levels in the tank, like my motorcycle does for it reserve.  That way, if the primary pumps runs dry, you can switch to the second pump and have a bit more fuel....hopefully at least enough to pull your head out and get on the ground.  This seems pretty easy, especially with inline pumps, to do and like a good idea. Seems as if you would just have to have one pump out location higher than the other and you have a bit of a reserve.  Yeah, you should be paying attention to fuel management but this seems like some cheap back up. However, I could be missing something as currently I am feeding both pumps from the same outlet. Thoughts?

 

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:15 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pump replaced

Chris,

Is there a difference in sound between the new pump and the old one you are still using?  I think that they should both sound the same.  Mine do.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Chris Barber
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:43 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel pump replaced

 

I replaced my faulty fuel pump.  The new pump is MUCH more quite.  I suspect the old one was on the way to failure for a while and finally when belly up.  It was really noisy.  When I took it off I applied power to both independently and the old one was just plain dead.

 

I hope I have addressed the few gremlins that has kept me on the ground the last few weeks and will get to fly later today.

 

FWIW.

 

Chris Barber

Houston KEFD

Velocity SE


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