flyrotary@lancaironline.net Mailing List Archive

It's normal for an engine to have a higher than minimum MP at lowest idle rpm but PP engines are a lot worse for this U shaped MP vs Throttle position curve than others. Another aggravating factor is taking the MP from a runner where velocity is high instead of a plenum where things are relatively calm. So yes, uncharted waters there Mark. One thing that may help is a MAP table that has a lot more 'pages' in it for RPM. The current version has 4 rpm pages but I'm working on a new version that has 8. If you could give me a chart showing your RPM vs MP over the range of say 800 to 2500 rpm, that would be useful information in optimizing the rpm ranges in the new version. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote: > Tracy, > > See Bobby's comments regarding my MAP at idle. My engine idles at > about 17.5 - 18" MAP, but the MAP will drop lower when slightly off > idle. I attribute this to the greater overlap of the p-port design. > Makes tuning a little more challenging though. > > A while back I had posted a question about "normal" MAP readings for > p-port engines but never got a reply. I guess I'm in unchartered > territory. > > Mark > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net> > Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:06 -0500 > Subject: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: PP engine advice? > To: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> > > Might tell Tracy about your 18" MP at idle and slightly lower MP off > idle. The other builders may be fighting the same issue. It would also > be interesting to know if they are seeing MP this high in their > installation. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Mark Steitle > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 8:32 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PP engine advice? > > Tracy, > > I ended up replacing the slide throttle with three individual 46mm > throttle bodies. I too had trouble getting stable manifold pressure > readings from the oil injection ports, so I installed MP taps just > downstream of the butterflies in the TB's, one for each TB. They are > tee'd together near the engine. That seems to be working just fine. > I'm using the oil injection pump instead of pre-mix, so the oil > injection ports are being used as originally intended by Mazda. > > If they are using a slide throttle, then the primary injectors should be > located downstream of the slide else fuel will puddle on the upstream > side during low throttle operation causing rough running. > > Update: The root of my tuning problems seems to have been the missing > injector diodes. Once I installed the diodes, the engine idle was much > improved and tuning has been a breeze. > > Mark > > > On 8/5/12, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote: >> Mark. S. (and anyone else with PP engine experience) >> >> How did you end up getting a usable MP signal for the EC2/3? I have >> another couple of builders who took Paul L's advice and used PP > engines with >> slide throttle mounted right to the ports. They are not having any > luck >> getting a stable MP using the oil injection ports on the rotor > housing. >> >> Did you ever come up with a good solution? >> >> Thanks, >> Tracy Crook >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Charlie, >>> >>> My system uses those EFI filters also. They are Fram p/n G3727. >>> They take a Saginaw fitting on the filter side (see pic). I don't >>> recall where I purchased my AN-Saginaw fittings. >>> >>> Mark S. >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Charlie England >>> <ceengland@bellsouth.net> >>> wrote: >>> I'm not flying yet, but I more or less copied Ed Anderson's filter >>> configuration: each high pressure pump feeds a separate GM inline >>> filter, with the outputs from the filters T'd back together to feed > the regulator. >>> There are AN adapters that screw into the filter. Attached is the >>> only pic I could find. The pumps are off the bottom of the pic. >>> >>> Ed, do you have the NAPA # handy? >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> >>> On 08/05/2012 03:35 PM, David Leonard wrote: >>>> >>>> So my next question is how small of filtration do we need? ie, what > >>>> is the size of a particle that will fit through the injector nozzle > easily? >>>> >>>> I was using the Earls sintered bronze element at 35microns, but I >>>> also could use the SS screen version at 85 mic. The Peterson in >>>> line 600 series is MUCH more expensive and comes in 45, 60, and 100 >>>> micron SS screens. >>>> >>>> http://www.jegs.com/p/Peterson-Fluid-Systems/Peterson-600-Series-Fue >>>> l-Filters/1528539/10002/-1 >>>> >>>> Those do have more surface area but will be a hassle for me to >>>> retrofit, and not sure they are worth 4x the price of the earls. >>>> Lots of other brands I have not explored yet. >>>> >>>> I like the sintered bronze for strength and durability. Other > opinions? >>>> >>>> Dave Leonard >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 12:42 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> Yea, mine is an Earls cleanable high pressure with maybe 10 sq cm >>>> worth of area. Will look into the Peterson. Thanks Tracy. >>>> >>>> Dave Leonard >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Al probably means the filter that's on factory in-tank pumps. OK, > but >>>> very hard to implement on RV wet-wing tanks. I used a gascolator > for >>>> low side filter on my -4. Worked OK and when it clogged, switching > >>>> on the backup pump with main pump caused the screen disk to collapse > and let >>>> fuel bypass it. which is better than no fuel at >>>> all but not an ideal solution. >>>> >>>> On the -8 i used a cleanable Peterson filter with TONS of filter > area, >>>> works great. That was a replacement for the Summit Racing fuel > filter >>>> with a filter element disk the size of a nickel. It clogged up in >>>> about about 5 hours of flight. >>>> >>>> Tracy >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Aug 5, 2012, at 10:18 AM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, it was the high side filter. I don't have any low side > filters. >>>>> Would be interested in a source for the self-cleaning fool-proof >>>>> low side filters that Al mentions. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> David Leonard >>>>> >>>>> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >>>>> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >>>>> http://RotaryRoster.net >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> I assume Al is referring to the pump intake side filter. So for > the >>>>> record, was it the inlet side or the high pressure side filter that > >>>>> clogged? ( Both are needed ) From the symptoms I'm guessing high >>>>> side but not sure. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, nice job! >>>>> >>>>> Tracy >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 4, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Al Wick" <alwick@juno.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As long as your are rebuilding, tremendous safety improvement by >>>>>> using same fuel filter method that all cars use. No matter how >>>>>> much foreign material you throw at it, it can't clog. It minimizes > >>>>>> pressure drop, so lower risk of vapor lock. Self cleaning filter. > Self priming pumps. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Al Wick >>>>>> Cozy IV powered by RDM Subaru 3.0R. >>>>>> Expert at failure prevention methods, N9032U 240+ hours from >>>>>> Portland, Oregon Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop >>>>>> construct, Risk assessment >>>>>> info: >>>>>> http://www.ez.org/pages/alwick/index.htm >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Jeff Whaley >>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:38 PM >>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Forced Landing >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave, having gone through recently what you just experienced I >>>>>> would like to say GOOD JOB on getting down safely and with such >>>>>> little damage. Anyway at 1500 AGL there isn't a lot of time ... >>>>>> obviously you made the right choices. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>> (Rebuilding my Ride) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fw: Fw: [FlyRotary] Rotary Forced > Landing >>>>>> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:18:47 -0700 >>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sigh.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yup, that was me. I have been meaning to fess up. We were at about > >>>>>> 1500 agl when the fuses blew on my fuel pumps. I was in a close >>>>>> formation of >>>>>> 40 aircraft at the time too. I think I got some bad MOGAS >>>>>> somewhere in Iowa as I did notice my fuel return flow creep >>>>>> downward but didn't think it was a big problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the incident flight, a one hour formation flight from SQI for a > >>>>>> mass arrival at OSH, the return fuel flow drifted down to zero. I >>>>>> actually though it was a sensor problem. I didn't have the ability > >>>>>> to give it a lot of attention because we were in a loose >>>>>> formation. Soon after we pulled it together for a tight formation >>>>>> power switched off. I tried to find a road, but quickly ran out of > >>>>>> options and put it down in a bean field. With the beans hitting >>>>>> the flaps it brought me to a stop in about 200ft, just before I >>>>>> would have gone into the full grown corn. As mentioned, wheel >>>>>> pants broke in half but no other damage besides pulling bean >>>>>> leaves out of every nook and cranny. The farmers were very nice, >>>>>> and the stories are true... they have attractive daughters. They > were out there barefoot in their Sunday best enjoying the excitement. >>>>>> Helped me clean the fuel filter and replace the fuses. Within a >>>>>> couple of hours I was able to take off from one of their driveways > >>>>>> as they all waived good bye (but strangely, no one took me up on >>>>>> my offer for a ride). >>>>>> >>>>>> Landed at OSH just before dark to a reserved parking space and a >>>>>> very warm reception from the formation group and friends. Great >>>>>> support from everyone all around, though I am trying to avoid the >>>>>> obvious new call signs they are trying to give me. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> David Leonard >>>>>> This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only >>>>>> for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential > information. >>>>>> Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>>>> received this message in error, please notify us immediately so >>>>>> that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the >>>>>> original message. Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> David Leonard >>>> >>>> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >>>> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >>>> http://RotaryRoster.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> David Leonard >>>> >>>> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >>>> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >>>> http://RotaryRoster.net >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >>> <Saginaw_2_AN.jpg> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html