X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5698493 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 07:54:16 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.203]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q78BrW3D003529 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 07:53:32 -0400 Received: from core-moe005b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-moe005.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.188.81]) by mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 09390E000089 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 07:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <367de.5d72719.3d53ad3b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 07:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Exhaust flanges To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_367de.5d72719.3d53ad3b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-Originating-IP: [173.88.30.23] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1344426812; bh=7VzSbPHgocjuZ0kPKRDFKQJN8iVBjJIDrPFpVrRqtQ4=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=E9A5bfE41vRSe2WKgLocemx6qdz9EyhxEgyJ2bu2kwxP6Oiu5WZ+grdmbvNiydd9U J/POs9TrxqdWa/pzHWh/2E2sDb44UvjYHRelY1tndU6KuPxGlwBtRP6iMK8c+MF5VM RFAg35zxAhhLUsIcsbpTrayiF8q0n48F7ZO4bQ9s= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:443771744:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33cb5022533c32b5 --part1_367de.5d72719.3d53ad3b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have done both with the Racing Beat (one piece) headers and several times with home made individual flange headers. No problems either way. Also I made up an adaptor plate to use Periphery port headers with the studs very close to the tubing and mate that spacing to the standard side port spacing with the wide stud spacing. So I ended up with two sets of sealing faces In both cases the flanges supported the header pipes and the collector. The muffler is supported in rigid mounts. Never a problem. You can generate leaks with rigid cast iron flanges like the old reactor set ups, if you over torque the nuts. You crush the ends of the stainless gasket and then get a leak at the sides. So, I stopped using the gaskets. There is little heat to deal with holding the flanges against the water cooled irons and rotor housings. So I tried coating the flanges with way too much GE silicone bath tub caulk. It worked great but some flowed into the port and blobs of it were stuck out into the exhaust flow for weeks, and didn't even break of and go down stream. It is really tough stuff. Now I use a 1/4" bead of silicone one inch out from the port. No gasket at all. Never a leak. You could try that then snatch the manifold off right after you torque it down to see how far the silicone migrated toward the port. Then adjust the bead size and location to keep the silicone just free of the port. Cracked turbo manifolds are as common as mud. They are poorly designed and too thin in some places. I suspect the gaskets are no help in reducing stresses. You could mount the flanges with Belleville washers in series, to provide an iron like clamping force but with slight movement caused by engine expansion. I never used them but it is an option. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 8/7/2012 6:47:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, CozyGirrrl@aol.com writes: We're curious about 13B turbo exhaust flanges, is there any reason they need to be one flange for both pipes or do you think it will seal up fine with one per? We're looking for small weight savings as well as easier to build up each pipe. The other ends of the pipes are floating with a double flange going into a collector. Chrissi & Randi --part1_367de.5d72719.3d53ad3b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have done both with the Racing Beat (one piece) headers and several = times=20 with home made individual flange headers. No problems either way. Also I ma= de up=20 an adaptor plate to use Periphery port headers
with the studs very close to the tubing and mate that spacing to the= =20 standard side port spacing with the wide stud spacing. So I ended up with t= wo=20 sets of sealing faces
 
In both cases the flanges supported the header pipes and the=20 collector.
The muffler is supported in rigid mounts. Never a problem.
 
You can generate leaks with rigid cast iron flanges like the old react= or=20 set ups, if you over torque the nuts. You crush the ends of the stainl= ess=20 gasket and then get a leak at the sides.
 
So, I stopped using the gaskets. There is little heat to deal with hol= ding=20 the flanges against the water cooled irons and rotor housings. So I tried
coating the flanges with way too much GE silicone bath tub caulk. It w= orked=20 great but some flowed into the port and blobs of it were stuck out into the= =20 exhaust flow for weeks, and didn't even break of and go down stream. It is= =20 really tough stuff. Now I use a 1/4" bead of silicone one inch out from the= =20 port. No gasket at all. Never a leak.
 
You could try that then snatch the manifold off right after you torque= it=20 down to see how far the silicone migrated toward the port. Then adjust the = bead=20 size and location to keep the silicone just free of the port.
 
Cracked turbo manifolds are as common as mud. They are poorly designed= and=20 too thin in some places. I suspect the gaskets are no help in reducing stre= sses.=20 You could mount the flanges with Belleville
washers in series, to provide an iron like clamping force but with sli= ght=20 movement caused by engine expansion.
 
I never used them but it is an option.
 
Lynn E. Hanover 
 
In a message dated 8/7/2012 6:47:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 CozyGirrrl@aol.com writes:
=
We're curious about 13B turbo exhaust flanges, is there any reason t= hey=20 need to be one flange for both pipes or do you think it will seal up fine= with=20 one per?
We're looking for small weight savings as well as easier to build up= each=20 pipe. The other ends of the pipes are floating with a double flange going= into=20 a collector.
 
Chrissi=20 &=20 Randi
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