X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ee0-f52.google.com ([74.125.83.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5565560 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 May 2012 10:13:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by eeke53 with SMTP id e53so998658eek.25 for ; Tue, 29 May 2012 07:12:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=540UJxg+Gr2uc8QhICREKQ4qZrArkkipmbhIQjmyFOI=; b=uRR9Bl+dyWK14L7XpvihyrV80Cl2pYlujZP71470qjwJV+mim4lH/uipXXeU9+MPrI UvDg+Nf3jP7lTbzdPNnEBoUOK6r/YortiVFoWKFRUBHSK+auiRw4AbQ4dZuYRLGrmsxr ZUlgtXbutYf2PKiuNIb42CKhwpli3JaUn2ZkK0xYVB3BwUCW0XAuvknk6OMv5XqjPAaY uH7qzGZwW1ZCqT7tbHdqMDS0GQJybzpIBv9R81xRWm+f8e9O88qAjpcZPA3SAFyvgz5s J2gdp7vLlBSWYNwQzYJenVcy2zYQjMDbRSP31hUJWdZgJXiLHDobfqGLZXwxamW2E77c SlBg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.142 with SMTP id o14mr5787244bkw.116.1338300772385; Tue, 29 May 2012 07:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.97.194 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2012 07:12:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector balancing From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cae1824042304c12d6e50 --0015175cae1824042304c12d6e50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Steve, Good suggestions. I have tried shutting off the secondary injectors with no noticeable change. I also checked to see if any of the secondary injectors were dribbling fuel. This did not show any leakage. Using an o-scope, I plan to look at the injector pulse width patterns in the near future. If there is something odd going on with the signal that ought to reveal it. The throttle shaft for all three TB's is one-piece. It is a custom built piece made on a Bridgeport mill. So there is no adjustment from one TB to the next. Visual exam could not detect any mis-match in the butterflies. Port timing is the same as these are peripheral port housings. These were also bored on a Bridgeport using the same SS tubing. Not sure how to test for exhaust runner backpressure. However, I have been running this same exhaust system prior to this problem. So, it does not seem to be high on the probability list. Thanks, Mark On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote: > Mark, > > > > It would seem to me that there are two possibilities: One is that rotor 1 > is getting too much fuel at low to mid range or that rotor 1 is not getting > as much air as the other rotors under these conditions. > > To test the first possibility, one could disconnect the secondary > injectors and observe the pulse width to the primary injectors to verify > that they are the same. From the work you have done already, it seems > unlikely that this would be the problem. > > To test the second possibility, you could verify the synchronization of > the throttle bodies, exchange the rotor 1 throttle body with one of the > others, verify that the port timing of rotor 1 is the same as the others, > and verify that the exhaust back pressures at the exhaust ports are > consistent. > > > > If the versatility of the EC2 allows you to compensate, the concern may > be minimal, but there must be a reason for what is going on. > > > > FWIW, > > > > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, May 28, 2012 7:38 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Injector balancing > > I'm in a bit of a dilemma and thought I would put this out here for the > group to ponder. > > First, this is a p-ported 3-rotor, running RWS EC-2 and psru. I'm > running 460cc Mazda primary injectors and 60lb Deka IV secondary injectors. > Primary injectors share a common fuel rail and are positioned close to the > engine, between throttle plate and rotor face. Secondary injectors are > located ahead of the throttle plates. As this is a p-port engine, it has > three 1-bbl TB's, located very close to the engine. Engine will idle down > to 800 - 900 rpm, but I normally idle it around 1500 - 1600 rpm. > > The problem is this, the #1 rotor cuts out at low to mid-range RPM, > evidenced by obvious reduced power, very low EGT's on rotor #1, change in > exhaust tone, a dark residue in the #1 exhaust port and dark spark plugs on > #1. Just today I was able to get it to run normally with balanced EGT's by > adjusting Mode 4, but I had to go *full CCW* with the program knob to > achieve this. (Mode 4 & 5 adjust similar to Mode 1) Now it runs well > mid-range and the dropped #1 rotor is happily firing away. I still have > some tuning to do, but after adjusting Mode 4, I can now move forward with > that. > > To date I have tried the following: > 1. Performed a compression check - OK > 2. Swapped primary injector with #3 - no change > 3. Swapped coils with #3 - no change > 4. Replaced spark plugs - no change, except initially it ran better > until the plug fouled > 5. Checked plug wires with ohm meter - checked good > 6. Sent EC-2 to Tracy for latest s/w and checkout - no abnormalities > found, latest s/w installed > 7. Checked secondary injectors for leakage - none seen > > Can anyone suggest a reason why the #1 primary injector runs extremely > rich when set to the factory default setting? Is this something to be > concerned with? > > Thanks, > Mark > > --0015175cae1824042304c12d6e50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve,=A0

Good suggestions. =A0I have tried shutting off= the secondary injectors with no noticeable change. =A0I also checked to se= e if any of the secondary injectors were dribbling fuel. =A0This did not sh= ow any leakage. =A0Using an o-scope, I plan to look at the injector pulse w= idth patterns in the near future. =A0If there is something odd going on wit= h the signal that ought to reveal it. =A0

The throttle shaft for all three TB's is one-piece.= =A0It is a custom built piece made on a Bridgeport mill. =A0So there is no= adjustment from one TB to the next. =A0Visual exam could not detect any mi= s-match in the butterflies. =A0

Port timing is the same as these are peripheral port ho= usings. =A0These were also bored on a Bridgeport using the same SS tubing. = =A0Not sure how to test for exhaust runner backpressure. =A0However, I have= been running this same exhaust system prior to this problem. =A0So, it doe= s not seem to be high on the probability list. =A0

Thanks,
Mark =A0

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Steven W. Boese &l= t;SBoese@uwyo.edu&= gt; wrote:

Mark,

=A0

It would seem to me that there are two possibilities:=A0 One is that rot= or 1 is getting too much fuel at low to mid range or that rotor 1 is not ge= tting as much air as the other rotors under these conditions.=A0

To test the first possibility, one could disconnect the secondary inject= ors and observe the pulse width to the primary injectors to verify that the= y are the same.=A0 From the work you have done already, it seems unlikely t= hat this would be the problem.=A0

To test the second possibility, you could verify the synchronization of = the throttle bodies, =A0exchange the rotor 1 throttle body with one of the = others, verify that the port timing of rotor 1 is the same as the others, a= nd verify that the exhaust back pressures at the exhaust ports are consistent.

=A0

If the versatility of the=A0EC2 allows you to compensate, = the concern may be minimal, but there must be a reason for what is going on= .

=A0

FWIW,

=A0

Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986=A013B NA, RD1A, EC2

=A0

=A0

Fro= m: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Mark = Steitle [msteitle@g= mail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 7:38 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Injector balancing

I'm in a bit of a=A0dilemma and thought I would put this out here = for the group to ponder. =A0

First, this is a p-ported 3-rotor, running RWS EC-2 and psru. =A0I'= ;m running 460cc Mazda primary injectors and 60lb Deka IV secondary injecto= rs. =A0Primary injectors share a common fuel rail and are positioned close = to the engine, between throttle plate and rotor face. =A0Secondary injectors are located ahead of the throttle plate= s. =A0As this is a p-port engine, it has three 1-bbl TB's, located very= close to the engine. =A0Engine will idle down to 800 - 900 rpm, but I norm= ally idle it around 1500 - 1600 rpm.

The problem is this, the #1 rotor cuts out at low to mid-range RPM, ev= idenced by obvious reduced power, very low EGT's on rotor #1, change in= exhaust tone, a dark residue in the #1 exhaust port and dark spark plugs o= n #1. =A0Just today I was able to get it to run normally with balanced EGT's by adjusting Mode 4, but I had = to go full CCW with the program knob to achieve this. =A0(Mode 4 &am= p; 5 adjust similar to Mode 1) =A0Now it runs well mid-range and the droppe= d #1 rotor is happily firing away. =A0I still have some tuning to do, but after adjusting Mode 4, I can now move forward= with that. =A0=A0

To date I have tried the following:
=A0 1. =A0Performed a compression check - OK
=A0 2. =A0Swapped primary injector with #3 - no change
=A0 3. =A0Swapped coils with #3 - no change
=A0 4. =A0Replaced spark plugs - no change, except initially it ran be= tter until the plug fouled
=A0 5. =A0Checked plug wires with ohm meter - checked good
=A0 6. =A0Sent EC-2 to Tracy for latest s/w and checkout - no abnormal= ities found, latest s/w installed
=A0 7. =A0Checked secondary injectors for leakage - none seen

Can anyone suggest a reason why the #1 primary injector runs extremely= rich when set to the factory default setting? =A0Is this something to be c= oncerned with?

Thanks,
Mark
=A0=A0

--0015175cae1824042304c12d6e50--