X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm26.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with SMTP id 5506515 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:37:11 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.96; envelope-from=dwayneparkinson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.64] by nm26.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2012 17:36:35 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.6] by tm4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2012 17:36:35 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2012 17:36:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 124089.30068.bm@omp1006.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 23780 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2012 17:36:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1335375394; bh=CH1slBeoqnJ0g3h3meCZ2JyEIQaOP1g5LADPOu2IejU=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=HZapayPE5MUa1qgmaJlZ5IeOqL0faeOPS3p/kKULsQQXb7Of0cDSSADe7Sm2gC9tJtaBGEML4IG4stALy8bTIVjMdXhRzCwN2inZoDgGjHSQOk52qE1pGFJyiFHKrjQxmJAqGCCcmbz5Jc28eg/etd0lTc/oX7VC/7HobLnSTLw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xSQH6V6GNpRHoSSJH8f6tV2WgO59sHcvj7f4Iku2YSKHzU/J9t9eCpI19xJkneVe6c49CugD/ZRN2oitArWzyeTevCRUTZgX5/DpHCPWSQgSxNHOhXVejD19zwlxLLDT7qJOtAiJ2+Bwv7nHcMjOStWWgzQUL2E8wFEeHr0ZbsY=; X-YMail-OSG: 8cziD6MVM1me6ehuth4ERy.am9djokwRdqbb36EgfiNyShH YLIBiybOwnzgDPsaRcxbS5SY2MCt1rYFPfrC1m7LkIUlNzCxHQaOu0b.lDoQ 2NonYMhnSkinIg.VkoEq9qdUjK7A0KlcPi2Nm4dyh9_YerdGEHsXRU6rxFii WAqMuQ.KUANsyc03.7FA6HkWoiB.XmJTTiXtnXydr5tALe6I.r3o61JEDq4a JxJoOtxhpDylZVRV5Fl0CnG.ZpKUVdoh2oGAFR_r8Dtx6x.9x3zFY9zFlQkt fveTctkSCr5m_1AXJWoA9z3B_l3JURVulyHWWbQFxTJD0vI3QnBiJUd3ZiE4 aGDipfMdflMFoEXk8b31HmQaeWzbkPQlw85UQqAGGq3792EcbBLbwgIqz2qQ 13pZIx0mPZTs4ntHNIoCqrErdLMgEdGnNWTvINpphxqJOgwiQVQhTEUmQ3S4 ORIXmxM7fmMk_nw4jljA- Received: from [69.130.239.44] by web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:36:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 References: Message-ID: <1335375393.99773.YahooMailNeo@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Dwayne Parkinson Reply-To: Dwayne Parkinson Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1482539785-670077977-1335375393=:99773" ---1482539785-670077977-1335375393=:99773 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding cooling. =C2=A0Take heart, it's probably something simple. =C2=A0= Sometimes smart people working on complex systems tend to think so fast and= furious that they over think things and forget to check the simple things = first. =C2=A0I know it sounds ridiculous but check all of the "obvious" thi= ngs first. =C2=A0Do you have cowl flaps that somehow closed and screwed up = the air flow. =C2=A0Is the air intake size proportionally sized to the exit= . =C2=A0Is the water pump working? =C2=A0=0A=0A=0A_________________________= _______=0A From: Jeff Whaley =0ATo: Rotary motors in = aircraft =0ASent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1= 1:49 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight=0A =0A=0A= =0ACongratulations Tim.=0A=C2=A0=0AYour first flight sounds a lot like min= e, except as you say my temps weren=E2=80=99t quite as high as yours and ne= ver experienced a boil over upon landing.=0AI=E2=80=99ve got a slow-poke (8= 0-90 mph climb speed and 110-115 cruise) so I can relate to your test fligh= t conditions.=0AI agree with Bobby; a set of pictures would help us a lot i= n helping you.=C2=A0 Without the photos what I can say is: ensure your cool= ers are in a high pressure air stream; ensure you have an absolute seal on = the intake plenums to your coolers and make sure there are no obstructions = to outlet airflow within 10-12 inches on the back side of your coolers.=0AQ= uestions:=0AWhy do you fill your expansion tank? =E2=80=93 I would suggest = leaving an air gap of at least 1/3 at the top.=0ADo you have an air bleed h= ose from the front of your engine back to the expansion tank? =E2=80=93 Thi= s is pretty standard for most other rotary installs.=0ADo you have a thermo= stat/bypass hole open or plugged?=0ABelt driven water pump or electric?=0AW= hat are your coolant hose diameters?=0A=C2=A0=0AJeff=0A=C2=A0=0A: "Bobby J.= Hughes" =0ASubject: RE: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B f= irst flight =0ADate: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:50:15 -0500 =0ATo: "Rotary motors = in aircraft" =0A=0A =0ATim,=0A=0ACongrats o= n your first flight. Pictures and cooler sizes would really=0Ahelp. =C2=A0O= nce you do some initial trouble shooting and changes you could=0Alimit your= HP during take-off and climb. The RV10 climbs better than a=0AC172 at redu= ced HP. I think I set my electric MT prop to 2200 rpm and=0Adidn't use any = boost for the first few flights. Still could get 800 fpm=0Aclimb. 7000 rpm = on a 3-rotor is a lot of HP to cool. =C2=A0=0A=0ABobby Hughes=0ARV10- Renes= is=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailt= o:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=0ABehalf Of Tiffanie Holt=0ASent: Wednesd= ay, April 25, 2012 10:16 AM=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft=0ASubject: [Fly= Rotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight=0A=0AWell, got up this morning and d= id the first flight on the RV-10. =C2=A0OAT=0A55 Degrees at 7000 ft. =C2=A0= Did the taxi to the runway and the water temp=0Awas 168 and oil was 150. = =C2=A0Everything looked full power in and off we=0Awent. =C2=A0She has plen= ty of power, RPM was 7000, and here comes the temps.=0AI immediatelly turn = to down wind at 80kts and the water temp=0Acame up to 220 and oil at 200. = =C2=A0 Turned base and temps still climbing=0Astill at 80 kts, turned atten= tion to land vise temps. =C2=A0I landed=0Aimmediately and taxied back to th= e hangar and the temps peaked at 245=0Awater and 240 oil. =C2=A0She got hot= , I got boil over once I shut the engine=0Adown. =C2=A0I took all the cowls= off to help the cooling of the engine.=0ACheck everything over, turned the= prop and listened for any unusual=0Anoise, checked the oil and could smell= the 2 stroke oil in it, which I=0Aunderstand is normal.=0A=0AShe Flew, but= not what I expected on temps. =C2=A0These are the highest temps=0Athat I h= ave seen so far. =C2=A0I had 11 hours on ground runs, but I did not=0Alet w= ater temps get above 205 and oil temp normally stayed at 180.=0A=0AAt the h= angar, I let the temps get to 180 on water and 160 on oil, I=0Afilled the e= xpansion tank back up and ensure there was coolant and=0Astarted her back u= p to see if I had normal readings. =C2=A0Oil pressure was=0Aon the rise, oi= l temp was at 175 and water temp stabilized at 190, Just=0Awanted to ensure= I did not do damage to the engine and that she would=0Astart. She was a li= ttle hard to start, but started purring like a kitten=0Aagain. =C2=A0Shut h= er down, and then started her back up and she immediately=0Aturn over.=0A= =0ADid not run her much longer, had to shut her down and get to work.=0A=0A= Are there any suggestions or inspections that I will need to do on the=0Aen= gine for the high temps?=0A=0AThings I plan to do before next run:=0A1. Oil= Change, Filter Clean: It is time for a cleaning and I can inspect=0Athe oi= l.=0A2. Flush the radiator: Ensure everything looks normal 3. The highest= =0Apoint in my water system is the expansion tank, but the water return is= =0Aat a level slightly below the expansion tank. =C2=A0I plan to install a= =0Afill/bleed valve in it to ensure all the air is out of the system.=0A4. = Move the Water Temp Sensor from the block to the return line to the=0Aradia= tor 5. Place the Louvers in the cowling. =C2=A0I did put the louvers in=0Ap= er Van's Plans, but I put then in the cowl to help pull the heat from=0Athe= exhaust system.=0A6. I will also open up the inlet to the Radiator as well= . =C2=A0The standard=0ASam James Cowl has a 4 3/4 inch Diameter opening, I = will open it up more=0Aand give it at try.=0A=0AAny suggestions would be gr= eatly appreciated.=0A=0ATim =0A=C2=A0=0AThis message, and the documents att= ached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged= or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohi= bited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immedia= tely so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the or= iginal message. Thank you. ---1482539785-670077977-1335375393=:99773 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="-1482539785-1117354928-1335375393=:99773" ---1482539785-1117354928-1335375393=:99773 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Regarding cooling. &n= bsp;Take heart, it's probably something simple.  Sometimes smart people working on complex systems tend = to think so fast and furious that they over think things and forget to chec= k the simple things first.  I know it sounds ridiculous but check all of the "obvious" things first. &nb= sp;Do you have cowl flaps that somehow closed and screwed up the air flow. =  Is the air intake size proportionally sized to the exit.  Is the= water pump working?  

=
From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datac= ast.com>
To: Rotary= motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:49 AM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight

=0A
=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
Congratula= tions Tim.
=0A
 
=0AYour first flight sounds a lot like mine, = except as you say my temps weren=E2=80=99t quite as high as yours and never= experienced a boil over upon landing.
=0A
I=E2=80=99ve got a slow-poke (80-90 mph climb speed and 110-115 cr= uise) so I can relate to your test flight conditions.
=0A
I agree with Bobby; a set of pictures would help us= a lot in helping you.  Without the photos what I can say is: ensure y= our coolers are in a high pressure air stream; ensure you have an absolute = seal on the intake plenums to your coolers=0A and make sure there are no ob= structions to outlet airflow within 10-12 inches on the back side of your c= oolers.
=0A
Questions:
=0AWhy do you fill your expansion tank? =E2= =80=93 I would suggest leaving an air gap of at least 1/3 at the top.
= =0A
Do you have an air bleed hose from = the front of your engine back to the expansion tank? =E2=80=93 This is pret= ty standard for most other rotary installs.
=0A
Do you have a thermostat/bypass hole open or plugged?
= =0A
Belt driven water pump or electric?=
=0A
What are your coolant hose di= ameters?
=0A
 
=0A
Jeff
=0A
 
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
=0A
:
= =0A		=0A
"Bobby J. Hughes" &= lt;bhughes@qnsi.net>
=0A
=0A
<= span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">Subject:
=0A		=0A
RE: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first= flight
=0A
=0A
Date:
=0A		=0A
Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:50:15 -0500
=0A
=0A
To:
=0A<= /td>=0A		=0A
"Rotary motors in aircr= aft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
=0A
=0A		= =0A
3D"Message
=0A
=0A<= span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;text-decoration:none;">3D"Undecoded
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Tim,
=0A
=0ACongrats on your first flight. Pic= tures and cooler sizes would really
=0Ahelp.  Once you do = some initial trouble shooting and changes you could
=0Alimit yo= ur HP during take-off and climb. The RV10 climbs better than a
=0A<= tt>C172 at reduced HP. I think I set my electric MT prop to 2200 rpm and
=0Adidn't use any boost for the first few flights. Still could ge= t 800 fpm
=0Aclimb. 7000 rpm on a 3-rotor is a lot of HP to coo= l.  
=0A
=0ABobby Hughes
=0ARV10- Renesis
=0A
=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: Rotary= motors in aircraft [= mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
= =0ABehalf Of Tiffanie Holt
=0ASent: Wednesday, April 25, 20= 12 10:16 AM
=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft
=0ASub= ject: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight
=0A
=0AWell= , got up this morning and did the first flight on the RV-10.  OAT=
=0A55 Degrees at 7000 ft.  Did the taxi to the runway and the = water temp
=0Awas 168 and oil was 150.  Everything looked = full power in and off we
=0Awent.  She has plenty of power= , RPM was 7000, and here comes the temps.
=0AI immediatelly tur= n to down wind at 80kts and the water temp
=0Acame up to 220 an= d oil at 200.   Turned base and temps still climbing
=0Ast= ill at 80 kts, turned attention to land vise temps.  I landed
= =0Aimmediately and taxied back to the hangar and the temps peaked at 24= 5
=0Awater and 240 oil.  She got hot, I got boil over once= I shut the engine
=0Adown.  I took all the cowls off to h= elp the cooling of the engine.
=0ACheck everything over, turned= the prop and listened for any unusual
=0Anoise, checked the oi= l and could smell the 2 stroke oil in it, which I
=0Aunderstand= is normal.
=0A
=0AShe Flew, but not what I expected on temp= s.  These are the highest temps
=0Athat I have seen so far= .  I had 11 hours on ground runs, but I did not
=0Alet wat= er temps get above 205 and oil temp normally stayed at 180.
=0A
= =0AAt the hangar, I let the temps get to 180 on water and 160 on oil, I=
=0Afilled the expansion tank back up and ensure there was cool= ant and
=0Astarted her back up to see if I had normal readings.=  Oil pressure was
=0Aon the rise, oil temp was at 175 and= water temp stabilized at 190, Just
=0Awanted to ensure I did n= ot do damage to the engine and that she would
=0Astart. She was= a little hard to start, but started purring like a kitten
=0Aa= gain.  Shut her down, and then started her back up and she immediately=
=0Aturn over.
=0A
=0ADid not run her much longe= r, had to shut her down and get to work.
=0A
=0AAre there an= y suggestions or inspections that I will need to do on the
=0Ae= ngine for the high temps?
=0A
=0AThings I plan to do before = next run:
=0A1. Oil Change, Filter Clean: It is time for a clea= ning and I can inspect
=0Athe oil.
=0A2. Flush the = radiator: Ensure everything looks normal 3. The highest
=0Apoin= t in my water system is the expansion tank, but the water return is=0Aat a level slightly below the expansion tank.  I plan to insta= ll a
=0Afill/bleed valve in it to ensure all the air is out of = the system.
=0A4. Move the Water Temp Sensor from the block to = the return line to the
=0Aradiator 5. Place the Louvers in the = cowling.  I did put the louvers in
=0Aper Van's Plans, but= I put then in the cowl to help pull the heat from
=0Athe exhau= st system.
=0A6. I will also open up the inlet to the Radiator = as well.  The standard
=0ASam James Cowl has a 4 3/4 inch = Diameter opening, I will open it up more
=0Aand give it at try.=
=0A
=0AAny suggestions would be greatly appreciated.=0A
=0ATim=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
 
=0A
=0AThis message, and the documents attached heret= o, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confide= ntial information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If y= ou have received this message in error, please notify us immediately=0A so = that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original m= essage. Thank you.=0A
=0A=0A


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