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From: Lehanover@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 01:33:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Question for Lynn and the Group
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
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Manual E shafts have the pilot bearing and oil seal installed to support  
the input shaft of the transmission. Automatic E shafts are bored for the  
outside diameter of the pilot bearing, but none is installed. The balance of  
both shafts is the same. 
 
If any of your weight sets actually came from the same engine, just check  
for a matching number on both weights. Usually a big 4 digit number stamped 
in  deep. If you don't have such a set, ask Racing Beat or Mazdatrix if they 
will  balance up a set from what you have. They will need the rotors you 
will use in  your engine.
Then you will have a matched rotating assembly.
 
There are permutations of situations that can be worked out. Suppose you  
have both weights and a shaft from one engine with matching numbers but one  
rotor is not serviceable.  The weights are not used to balance the rotors  
in the way you would think. The weights are there to take out a rocking 
couple.  That is an imbalance caused by the fact that the rotors are not turning 
in the  same plane but are displaced along the shaft and that causes the 
ends of the  shaft to try to spin in a small circle. Kind of a wiggle. So, the 
weights just  take out that wiggle.
 
The rotors weigh about 10 pounds and are very close together weight wise,  
and in 90% of the cases you could grab any rotor from the same year engine 
and  run it for years with no problems at all. The rotors are marked when new 
with a  paint dot that shows its weight class. I think there are 5 such 
colors and Mazda  allows a 2 color range of colors.
So if you have a weight class 3 rotor you could assemble that with a class  
2 or a  4 and have an as new balance job from the factory. 
 
So close is good enough. But for racing I built a balance beam scale out of 
 a 2X4 and some dry wall screws that can detect a penny move 2 inches on 
the end  of the beam. Way better than close enough.
 
So the known good balance rotor from the same engine as the same numbered  
weights goes on one end of the scale and a good unknown rotor on the other. 
I  have a good supply of rotors so it works for me.
You keep trying until you get the same weight or one that is heavy.
Then lighten the heavy rotor to match the known rotor and assemble.
 
Or throw the whole thing in a box and ship to one of the above shops.
You could send just the shaft and weights and ask for new rotors in your  
balanced rotating assembly. 
 
I have disassembled engines with different year rotors, wrong year counter  
weights and front an rear rotors reversed (in 12-As). 
The balance is so close that most people cannot feel the worst case balance 
 job in a rotary.
 
Call Racing Beat or Mazdatrix before shipping anything and follow their  
instructions exactly.  Both good people. 
 
You can download the Racing Beat catalog for free and it is full of  such 
information.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
 
In a message dated 4/23/2012 10:32:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
alpha@concordnc.com writes:

1. How  do you tell an automatic vs manual eccentric shaft?  Is there a  
difference?  What is the difference?


2. Suppose I have  several eccentric shafts, front counter weights and 
rear counter weights  of unknown origins how do I go about selecting a 
workable set?  What  parameters do I use for the selection of each 
component?

Thanks for any  replies.

Jim Brewer
Albemarle,  NC


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color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial>
<DIV>Manual E shafts have the pilot bearing and oil seal installed to suppo=
rt=20
the input shaft of the transmission. Automatic E shafts are bored for the=
=20
outside diameter of the pilot bearing, but none is installed. The balance o=
f=20
both shafts is the same. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If any of your weight sets actually came from the same engine, just ch=
eck=20
for a matching number on both weights. Usually a big 4 digit number stamped=
 in=20
deep. If you don't have such a set, ask Racing Beat or Mazdatrix if they wi=
ll=20
balance up a set from what you have. They will need the rotors you will use=
 in=20
your engine.</DIV>
<DIV>Then you will have a matched rotating assembly.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There are permutations of situations that can be worked out. Suppose y=
ou=20
have both weights and a shaft from one engine with matching numbers but one=
=20
rotor is not serviceable. &nbsp;The weights are not used to balance the rot=
ors=20
in the way you would think. The weights are there to take out a rocking cou=
ple.=20
That is an imbalance caused by the fact that the rotors are not turning in =
the=20
same plane but are displaced along the shaft and that causes the ends of th=
e=20
shaft to try to spin in a small circle. Kind of a wiggle. So, the weights j=
ust=20
take out that wiggle.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The rotors weigh about 10 pounds and are very close together weight wi=
se,=20
and in 90% of the cases you could grab any rotor from the same year engine =
and=20
run it for years with no problems at all. The rotors are marked when new wi=
th a=20
paint dot that shows its weight class. I think there are 5 such colors and =
Mazda=20
allows a 2 color range of colors.</DIV>
<DIV>So if you have a weight class 3 rotor you could assemble that with a c=
lass=20
2 or a&nbsp; 4 and have an as new balance job from the factory. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So close is good enough. But for racing I built a balance beam scale o=
ut of=20
a 2X4 and some dry wall screws that can detect a penny move 2 inches on the=
 end=20
of the beam. Way better than close enough.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So the known good balance rotor from the same engine as the same numbe=
red=20
weights goes on one end of the scale and a good unknown rotor on the other.=
 I=20
have a good supply of rotors so it works for me.</DIV>
<DIV>You keep trying until you get the same weight or one that is heavy.</D=
IV>
<DIV>Then lighten the heavy rotor to match the known rotor and assemble.</D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Or throw the whole thing in a box and ship to one of the above shops.<=
/DIV>
<DIV>You could send just the shaft and weights and ask for new rotors in yo=
ur=20
balanced rotating assembly. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have disassembled engines with different year rotors, wrong year cou=
nter=20
weights and front an rear rotors reversed (in 12-As). </DIV>
<DIV>The balance is so close that most people cannot feel the worst case ba=
lance=20
job in a rotary.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Call Racing Beat or Mazdatrix before shipping anything and follow thei=
r=20
instructions exactly.&nbsp; Both good people.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>You can download the Racing Beat catalog for free&nbsp;and it is full =
of=20
such information.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Lynn E. Hanover</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/23/2012 10:32:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
alpha@concordnc.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">=
<FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DA=
rial>1. How=20
  do you tell an automatic vs manual eccentric shaft?&nbsp; Is there a=20
  <BR>difference?&nbsp; What is the difference?<BR><BR><BR>2. Suppose I hav=
e=20
  several eccentric shafts, front counter weights and <BR>rear counter weig=
hts=20
  of unknown origins how do I go about selecting a <BR>workable set?&nbsp; =
What=20
  parameters do I use for the selection of each component?<BR><BR>Thanks fo=
r any=20
  replies.<BR><BR>Jim Brewer<BR>Albemarle,=20
NC<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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