X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.213.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTPS id 5125772 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:21:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.52; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by ywp31 with SMTP id 31so4262887ywp.25 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:references:from:content-type:x-mailer:in-reply-to :message-id:date:to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=2TTpuZKS3N63q1JWGrpD5QyNHlx6Cg75cEpzfOMVZTo=; b=xQi1V4Q7/z/wbmc9FQSi/AMfAHKaVmdhGihmW/j14k+eqOt+1C4BbqC5uYOrSgX/0r TPEeK3lo6h7tXJe3ekRoUAE3NZw9lIKt8rIonJcinceDt2UraXm0/LZbniAaDAl7V/cR /KhcnhlDrIIa3NGq2DFoYm/KITUukFwKaCd+4= Received: by 10.236.191.198 with SMTP id g46mr8156184yhn.124.1316107267545; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [69.98.179.9] (9.sub-69-98-179.myvzw.com [69.98.179.9]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s19sm16624771anm.20.2011.09.15.10.21.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... References: From: Tracy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-18-645133736 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8F191) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <47D0AD5D-C310-48B8-955D-E38B99BBFEE4@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:21:03 -0600 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8F191) --Apple-Mail-18-645133736 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > but what the heck am I missing? The CAS references the crank, not the rotor. Is that. It? Tracy Sent from my iPad On Sep 14, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Tom Walter wrote: > Could you enlighten me? =20 >=20 > I'm missing something pretty obvious, but allowing for one "missing spark e= vent" All my 120 degree trailing offset means is that I'm really firing of= f rotor face 2, which the ecu thinks is rotor face 1. No camshaft, or cam t= iming issues, but what the heck am I missing? >=20 > Tom >=20 > From: Tracy > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:06 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... >=20 > Short answer is no. It's never that simple. > Tracy >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Sep 14, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Tom Walter wrote: >=20 >> Tracy, >>=20 >> If the second CAS sensor was set up at 120 crank degrees after the first o= ne, wouldn't that be a zero offset? >>=20 >> My thoughts: Rotor spins at 1/3 crank speed..... so with 720 crank revol= utions, that is six ignition events. So each ignition event is 120 degrees a= part. Yes, I tend to think in 720 crankshaft degrees, to many years in au= tomotive piston engines. =20 >>=20 >> Tom >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Tracy >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:43 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... >>=20 >> The relay is not needed in this hypothetical fix. The EC2/3 already has= 2 CAS inputs. All that is needed is a hard definition of sensor offset so t= he software can be written appropriately. ( I'm assuming a Renesis engine w= hich has only one CAS in this discussion.) >>=20 >> The CAS output is an AC voltage sine-wave that varies with engine speed. = This is true for both Mazda and Subaru engines (and almost all others). T= he sensor is a variable reluctor type. =20 >>=20 >> Tracy >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Sep 14, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Chad Robinson w= rote: >>=20 >>> On 9/14/2011 1:48 PM, Al Wick wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> >>> If memory serves, it's 0 to 5vdc square wave. >>>> =20 >>>> >>> Yes, but I'm not sure where you are going. You thinking normally closed= contacts to OEM CAS, norm open to backup CAS? You still have to manage angl= e offset. Would be unfortunate to have moisture in relay or turbulence disru= pt CAS. Likely not going to end up with safety improvement. Good creative id= ea though. >>> The rotary engine CAS is set up on a bracket near the front pulley. I wa= s envisioning a system where you had a sensor in exactly the same spot on th= e other side of the toothed wheel. You might need an offset alternator pulle= y to make room for it - but then you don't have to worry about angles/offset= s. It's just a second sensor, ready to go - flip a switch and try an engine r= estart. If relay reliability was a concern there are always SSRs or even jus= t good switching transistors... >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-18-645133736 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
 = ;but what the heck am I missing?

The CAS references the crank, not the rotor.   Is t= hat. It?

Tracy


Sent from my iPad<= /div>

On Sep 14, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Tom Walter <roundrocktom@yahoo.com> wrote:

<= div>
Could you enlighten me? 

I'm missing something pretty obvious, but allowin= g for one "missing spark event"   All my 120 degree trailing offse= t means is that I'm really firing off rotor face 2, which the ecu thinks is r= otor face 1.   No camshaft, or cam timing issues,  but what t= he heck am I missing?

Tom=

From: T= racy <rwstracy@gmail.com>To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net>
Sent= : Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:06 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the ba= d news......

Short answer is no= .   It's never that simple.
Tracy

Sent from my i= Pad

On Sep 14, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Tom Walter <round= rocktom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tracy,

If the second CAS sensor wa= s set up at 120 crank degrees after the first one, wouldn't that be a zero offset?

My thoughts:&nbs= p; Rotor spins at 1/3 crank speed..... so with 720 crank revolutions, that i= s six ignition events. So each ignition event is 120 degrees ap= art.    Yes, I tend to think in 720 crankshaft degrees, to ma= ny years in automotive piston engines. 
<= div>
Tom




<= /div>


From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
= To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
= Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2= 011 4:43 PM
Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......

The relay is not needed in this hypothetical fix.   T= he EC2/3 already has 2 CAS inputs.  All that is needed is a hard defini= tion of sensor offset so the software can be written appropriately.  ( I'm assuming a= Renesis engine which has only one CAS in this discussion.)

The CAS output is an AC voltag= e sine-wave that varies with engine speed.   This is true for both Mazd= a and Subaru engines (and almost all others).   The sensor is a variabl= e reluctor type.   

Tracy

Sent fro= m my iPad

On Sep 14, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Chad Robinson <crob= inson@medialantern.com> wrote:

On 9/14/2011 1:48 PM, Al Wick wrote:
=20 =20
<What kind of signal is on the CAS line
If memory serves, it's 0 to 5vdc square wave.
 
<Could it go through a relay safely?
Yes, but I'm not sure where you are going. You thinking normally closed contacts to OEM CAS, norm open to backup CAS? You still have to manage angle offset. Would be unfortunate to have moisture in relay or turbulence disrupt CAS. Likely not going to end up with safety improvement. Good creative idea though.
The rotary engine CAS is set up on a bracket near the front pulley. I was envisioning a system where you had a sensor in exactly the same spot on the other side of the toothed wheel. You might need an offset alternator pulley to make room for it - but then you don't have to worry about angles/offsets. It's just a second sensor, ready to go - flip a switch and try an engine restart. If relay reliability was a concern there are always SSRs or even just good switching transistors...

=20


=

= --Apple-Mail-18-645133736--