X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.93] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5124725 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:21:39 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.93; envelope-from=roundrocktom@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.65] by nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2011 22:21:03 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.24] by tm5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2011 22:21:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1024.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2011 22:21:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 357315.89287.bm@omp1024.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 44350 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2011 22:21:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1316038863; bh=PxI1FPTp+iNAkQUz6dYC+jGQKYPf7sQdeAs3hLpc9dI=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Wl/JsXU4sK0suM+AGFcg6rqgG1z+g0/ncrXO/RVacA+Hyx+7hyEjXayP6GwRRjpHR9xbOW76eWno0TsoaBC9P3NsI3WFjjPlNgMLJylN+66kZaSpWZ1WC/iioi6gI1WMdKRWjSAeGioEWlWm+HI/NYtr6gzYxTkOUdAYaXv9XDQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=hCOZ76PUSBDzVaToOrnl7hplGbAnZtjtXG0bHZSdaV4M/oJK0jqwmMP6dPnkMovJ1WFqgOIWGDu2lrfhvTST5DyhCGnUolGB0jfSXuXlza7COFnDrbHv1SvFwY4NiNKZccNDdLcoY+Lks5g5o3/ALvUsN/gDPYcW2KOf/VoFcJ4=; X-YMail-OSG: Q8yt6bMVM1m8Q.84N_DhW2n0TlJR9OTLaBZRWL84o.x3f9q jhT.gz8VRi32qdCKUUO36cwsXClNLs5sDOww7_fpRjEv44b5mewv1m80os7i pVv2BBLTHHWZPDpVW2Yd.9q.HSdp9Oykotv6kATGGi0wobDjVJIcD2ugUdOz q.i7um7YwMynwXVHa_v566jEf_C3hJHuAxLj.yFUzwQodwoBSzVPVir9mEgU CvHAkbuibj2U.w_Ftic8HraC9AJ7.4eIDBURucsb6dwhG9KGH6hwPpl_fWi7 2zaPUa94XLEpaMZslOF1AJea0RaPVWZSjHpSlzy1Dy6JO.EGNCQa8iFdIbOQ AkIILfNQmkv1FezqVcVky04_Wy4XY4hAYSIM_JX0Hwlt9wYhHKZcyEXWEKL0 lESeD317O5Xn.h3kk1CSHwHjAWsRPIt62cZCm9dhkO_7HfoZkA4PjashwHaP ALlmflg3GaPpgdFGm3Fywgp7XIc_7hDr7flGeMAdwaCdghpSsy43_oQ4- Received: from [216.52.185.72] by web111505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:21:02 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: Message-ID: <1316038862.43601.YahooMailNeo@web111505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:21:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Walter Reply-To: Tom Walter Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1869063151-308719099-1316038862=:43601" ---1869063151-308719099-1316038862=:43601 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could you enlighten me?=A0 =0A=0A=0AI'm missing something pretty obvious, b= ut allowing for one "missing spark event"=A0=A0 All my 120 degree trailing = offset means is that I'm really firing off rotor face 2, which the ecu thin= ks is rotor face 1.=A0=A0 No camshaft, or cam timing issues,=A0 but what th= e heck am I missing?=0A=0ATom=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________= =0AFrom: Tracy =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:06 PM=0ASubj= ect: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......=0A=0A=0AShort ans= wer is no. =A0 It's never that simple.=0ATracy=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0A= On Sep 14, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Tom Walter wrote:=0A= =0A=0ATracy,=0A>=0A>=0A>If the second CAS sensor was set up at 120 crank de= grees after the first one, wouldn't that be a zero offset?=0A>=0A>=0A>My th= oughts:=A0 Rotor spins at 1/3 crank speed..... so with 720 crank revolution= s, that is six ignition events.So each ignition event is 120 degrees apart.= =A0=A0=A0 Yes, I tend to think in 720 crankshaft degrees, to many yearsin a= utomotive piston engines.=A0 =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Tom=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A= >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>From: = Tracy =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:43 PM=0A>Subject: [= FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......=0A>=0A>=0A>The relay is= not needed in this hypothetical fix. =A0 The EC2/3 already has 2 CAS input= s. =A0All that is needed is a hard definition of sensor offset so the softw= are can=A0be written appropriately. =A0( I'm assuming a Renesis engine whic= h has only one CAS in this discussion.)=0A>=0A>=0A>The CAS output is an AC = voltage sine-wave that varies with engine speed. =A0 This is true for both = Mazda and Subaru engines (and almost all others). =A0 The sensor is a varia= ble reluctor type. =A0=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>Tracy=0A>=0A>Sent from my iPad=0A>=0A>= On Sep 14, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Chad Robinson wr= ote:=0A>=0A>=0A>On 9/14/2011 1:48 PM, Al Wick wrote: =0A>> =0A>>>>>If memory serves, it's 0 to 5vdc square = wave. =0A>>>=A0=0A>>>>>Yes, but I'm= not sure where you are going. You thinking=A0normally closed contacts to O= EM CAS, norm open to backup CAS? You still have to manage angle offset. Wou= ld be unfortunate to have moisture in relay or turbulence disrupt CAS. Like= ly not going to end up with safety improvement. Good creative idea though. = =0AThe rotary engine CAS is set up on a bracket near the front pulley. I wa= s envisioning a system where you had a sensor in exactly the same spot on t= he other side of the toothed wheel. You might need an offset alternator pul= ley to make room for it - but then you don't have to worry about angles/off= sets. It's just a second sensor, ready to go - flip a switch and try an eng= ine restart. If relay reliability was a concern there are always SSRs or ev= en just good switching transistors...=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A> ---1869063151-308719099-1316038862=:43601 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Could you = enlighten me? 

I'm missing something pretty obvious, but allowing for one "missing spark = event"   All my 120 degree trailing offset means is that I'm real= ly firing off rotor face 2, which the ecu thinks is rotor face 1. &nbs= p; No camshaft, or cam timing issues,  but what the heck am I missing?=

Tom

From: Tracy <rwst= racy@gmail.com>
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:06= PM
Subject: [FlyRotary= ] Re: The good news and the bad news......

Short answer is no.   It's never that simple.
T= racy

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 14, 2011, at 3:59= PM, Tom Walter <roundrockto= m@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tracy,

If the second CAS sensor was set = up at 120 crank degrees after the first one, wouldn't that be a zero offset?

My thoughts:&nb= sp; Rotor spins at 1/3 crank speed..... so with 720 crank revolutions, that= is six ignition events. So each ignition event is 120 degrees= apart.    Yes, I tend to think in 720 crankshaft degrees, t= o many years in automotive piston engines. 

Tom




<= /span>


From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net>
Sent: Wedne= sday, September 14, 2011 4:43 PM
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......
<= /font>
The relay is not needed in this hy= pothetical fix.   The EC2/3 already has 2 CAS inputs.  All that i= s needed is a hard definition of sensor offset so the software can be written appropriat= ely.  ( I'm assuming a Renesis engine which has only one CAS in this= =0A discussion.)

The CAS output is an AC vo= ltage sine-wave that varies with engine speed.   This is true for both= Mazda and Subaru engines (and almost all others).   The sensor is a v= ariable reluctor type.   

Tracy

S= ent from my iPad

On Sep 14, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Chad Robinson = <crobinson@medialantern.com> w= rote:

=0A On 9/14= /2011 1:48 PM, Al Wick wrote:=0A
=0A =0A = =0A =0A
<What kind of signal is on th= e CAS line
=0A
If memory serves, it's 0 to 5vdc square wave.=
=0A
 
=0A
<Could it go through a re= lay safely?
=0A
Yes, but I'm not sure where you are going. Y= ou=0A thinking normally closed contacts to OEM CAS, norm open t= o=0A backup CAS? You still have to manage angle offset. Would be=0A = unfortunate to have moisture in relay or turbulence disrupt CAS.=0A = Likely not going to end up with safety improvement. Good=0A c= reative idea though.
=0A
=0A The rotary engine CAS= is set up on a bracket near the front pulley.=0A I was envisioning a sy= stem where you had a sensor in exactly the=0A same spot on the other sid= e of the toothed wheel. You might need an=0A offset alternator pulley to= make room for it - but then you don't=0A have to worry about angles/off= sets. It's just a second sensor, ready=0A to go - flip a switch and try = an engine restart. If relay=0A reliability was a concern there are alway= s SSRs or even just good=0A switching transistors...
=0A
=0A = =0A=0A




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