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References: <list-5112434@logan.com>
Message-ID: <1315080203.55239.YahooMailNeo@web83905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Reply-To: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject:  The good news and the bad news......
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-5112434@logan.com>
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Bill,=0A=A0Curious what ratio of two cycle lube to fuel you are using and d=
o you premix =0Aor run the stock metering pump ?............You show 750 hr=
s on your ship but=0Aindicated 170 hrs worth of carbon on the rotors.......=
....Had you been into the=0Aengine 170 hrs ago and if so what reason=A0?...=
...........=0A=A0=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B =
ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"=
TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: Bill Eslick <wgeslick@gmail.com>=0ATo:=
 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent: Friday, Se=
ptember 2, 2011 10:51 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad n=
ews......=0A=0A=0AI have been holding up reporting this until all the facts=
 are in, but that might never happen, so here we go.=0A=0A=0AGood news:=A0 =
No injuries.=A0 =0A=0ABad news:=A0 I have some work to do.=0A=0APhotos at:=
=A0 http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101=0A=0AOn August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up fo=
r takeoff at my home airport (3600' paved) into a 5 knot headwind.=A0 I had=
 just finished changing the oil and filter and plugs.=A0 Run-up was fine, s=
o off I went.=A0 Approximately mid-field, and a couple of hundred feet in t=
he air, it suddenly and without any warning became very silent.=0A=0AHit th=
e big switch which puts direct battery power to everything engine, but no n=
oise.=A0 No more time.=A0 At this point flying the machine becomes THE prio=
rity.=A0 Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a little bit of runway unde=
r the nose!=A0 I had fully expected to land in trees, houses or the river, =
so I dove what seemed like straight down to capture as much runway as possi=
ble while (somehow) holding the electric flap switch long enough to get ful=
l flaps (noticed this later).=A0 Pulled probably my best round-out ever - n=
o bounce.=A0 Brakes to max and tail up for weight.=A0 I think my sub-concio=
us put it all the way on the nose to try to prevent going through the fence=
 and down the hill.=A0 Wheel skid starts about 200 feet from the stopping p=
oint.=A0 Skid marks from the wheel pants, cowling and prop run about the la=
st 50 feet.=A0 It stopped nose down just off the end.=A0 The tail was still=
 over pavement.=A0 Pushed the slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and
 down.=A0 Noticed that I was not even scared by the whole event.=A0 Interes=
ting.=A0 Never even considered trying to turn around.=A0 Pre-thinking that =
non-option apparently paid off.=A0 =0A=0AMore good news.=A0 No FAA or NTSB =
as it was a non-reportable incident.=A0 Didn't even bend the gear legs.=A0 =
Also, my neighbor crashed in a Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the c=
ity airport about 10 miles away.=A0 The police and rescue types were headed=
 that way (they had injuries) and were not interested in my minor mishap.=
=0A=0AAs for the engine.=A0 When we got it back to the hangar, the prop wou=
ld turn only haltingly.=A0 You could feel grinding going on inside.=A0 Firs=
t try at turning had it come up hard and stop.=A0 More fooling with it and =
it gradually came looser and would turn.=A0 Really looked like something ca=
me loose in there.=A0 Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a compression t=
est.=A0 Rotor 1 was 80-80-80.=A0 Rotor 2 was 2-2-2.=A0 More proof that some=
thing had come loose.=A0 With that evidence, the insurance company allowed =
me to remove the engine for inspection.=A0 What I found was a pile of groun=
d up ceramic junk.=A0 All the seals were still fine.=A0 Lots of time went i=
n to finding where that stuff came from.=A0 Went through every inch of the =
induction system.=A0 Finally Jason Hutchison (my other on-airport rotary gu=
y) broke the code.=A0 While the RV was standing on it's nose, this crap fro=
m my burned-out Hushpower II ran back up the manifold and in the exhaust po=
rt.=A0 That is
 what was grinding.=A0 Crap.=A0 Now the entire thing is off the firewall in=
cluding the engine mount.=A0 All the wiring is disconnected (did not find a=
nything loose or missing).=A0 I spent the morning looking under the panel f=
or any loose or broken wiring, but found none.=A0 When I get the EC-2 out, =
Jason wants to plug it into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors =
test.=A0 If that checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look.=A0=
 I don't know what else to check.=A0 The engine quit just like somebody rea=
ched over and turned off the ignition.=A0 No stumble, no hiccup, just insta=
nt silence.=A0 I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or not.=A0 I =
suspect not, due to the silence and the fact that one blade is untouched.=
=0A=0AAs you can see from the photos, there was something going on with Rot=
or 1.=A0 Wear is apparent down stream from the plug holes and all 3 apex se=
als are starting to chip in the center.=A0 There is quite a lot of carbon a=
lso on the rotors after 170 hours.=0A=0AGoing forward, I have decided to lo=
ok at resale value for if/when my RV-12 days arrive.=A0 This means putting =
a (gasp) IO-360 on it.=A0 The rotary has given me a safe 10-year run (til n=
ow, of course), so I have no regrets, but this is an opportunity to make so=
me changes, and parts are already on the way.=A0 I will still be hanging ou=
t at the engine tent at S-n-F and wherever else gatherings happen.=A0 Hope =
to be flying by the first of next year....=0A=0AI'm sure some of you will h=
ave suggestions about what might have gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of=
 speculation, but bear in mind I am just looking at a pile of parts and wir=
es at this point.=A0 Both fuel pumps were on, tanks were over half full, cr=
ank angle sensor worked fine.=0A=0AGuess it's obvious that I now have a RD-=
1A, EC-2, EFI Monitor (Ed's),=A0 Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props=
 and LOTS of engine parts (my whole 14-year stash) available!=A0 And priced=
 to sell!=0A=0ABill Eslick=0ARV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A=0A750 Hours
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN=
 style=3D"RIGHT: auto">Bill,</SPAN></div>
<div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">&nbsp;Curious what r=
atio of two cycle lube to fuel you are using and do you premix </SPAN></div=
>
<div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">or run the stock met=
ering pump ?............You show 750 hrs on your ship but</SPAN></div>
<div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">indicated 170 hrs wo=
rth of carbon on the rotors...........Had you been into the</SPAN></div>
<div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">engine 170 hrs ago a=
nd if so what reason<VAR id=3Dyui-ie-cursor></VAR>&nbsp;?..............</SP=
AN></div>
<div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto"></SPAN>&nbsp;</div>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<div>Kelly Troyer<BR><B><FONT size=3D4>"DYKE DELTA JD2"</FONT> <FONT size=
=3D1>(Eventually)</FONT></B></div>
<div>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine<BR>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2<BR>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil =
Manifold</div>
<div>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo</div>
<div><BR></div>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>
<DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; P=
ADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PAD=
DING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; B=
ORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=3Dhr contentEditable=
=3Dfalse readonly=3D"true"></DIV><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:=
</SPAN></B> Bill Eslick &lt;wgeslick@gmail.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FON=
T-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Rotary motors in aircraft &lt;flyrotary@lanc=
aironline.net&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Friday, September 2, 2011 10:51 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">=
Subject:</SPAN></B> [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad news......<BR></F=
ONT><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv393794188><FONT style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: trebuchet ms, sans-serif=
" size=3D4>I have been holding up reporting this until all the facts are in=
, but that might never happen, so here we go.</FONT><BR>
<DIV class=3Dyiv393794188gmail_quote><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3D"trebuchet=
 ms,sans-serif"><BR>Good news:&nbsp; No injuries.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Bad news:&n=
bsp; I have some work to do.<BR><BR>Photos at:&nbsp; </FONT></FONT><B><A hr=
ef=3D"http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>http://ww=
w.tiny9.com/u/2101</A></B><BR><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3D"trebuchet ms,san=
s-serif"><BR>On August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home air=
port (3600' paved) into a 5 knot headwind.&nbsp; I had just finished changi=
ng the oil and filter and plugs.&nbsp; Run-up was fine, so off I went.&nbsp=
; Approximately mid-field, and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it sudd=
enly and without any warning became very silent.<BR><BR>Hit the big switch =
which puts direct battery power to everything engine, but no noise.&nbsp; N=
o more time.&nbsp; At this point flying the machine becomes THE priority.&n=
bsp; Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a little bit of runway under th=
e
 nose!&nbsp; I had fully expected to land in trees, houses or the river, so=
 I dove what seemed like straight down to capture as much runway as possibl=
e while (somehow) holding the electric flap switch long enough to get full =
flaps (noticed this later).&nbsp; Pulled probably my best round-out ever - =
no bounce.&nbsp; Brakes to max and tail up for weight.&nbsp; I think my sub=
-concious put it all the way on the nose to try to prevent going through th=
e fence and down the hill.&nbsp; Wheel skid starts about 200 feet from the =
stopping point.&nbsp; Skid marks from the wheel pants, cowling and prop run=
 about the last 50 feet.&nbsp; It stopped nose down just off the end.&nbsp;=
 The tail was still over pavement.&nbsp; Pushed the slider canopy UPHILL, s=
tepped out and down.&nbsp; Noticed that I was not even scared by the whole =
event.&nbsp; Interesting.&nbsp; Never even considered trying to turn around=
.&nbsp; Pre-thinking that non-option apparently paid off.&nbsp;
 <BR><BR>More good news.&nbsp; No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable in=
cident.&nbsp; Didn't even bend the gear legs.&nbsp; Also, my neighbor crash=
ed in a Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 mi=
les away.&nbsp; The police and rescue types were headed that way (they had =
injuries) and were not interested in my minor mishap.<BR><BR>As for the eng=
ine.&nbsp; When we got it back to the hangar, the prop would turn only halt=
ingly.&nbsp; You could feel grinding going on inside.&nbsp; First try at tu=
rning had it come up hard and stop.&nbsp; More fooling with it and it gradu=
ally came looser and would turn.&nbsp; Really looked like something came lo=
ose in there.&nbsp; Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a compression tes=
t.&nbsp; Rotor 1 was 80-80-80.&nbsp; Rotor 2 was 2-2-2.&nbsp; More proof th=
at something had come loose.&nbsp; With that evidence, the insurance compan=
y allowed me to remove the engine for inspection.&nbsp; What I found
 was a pile of ground up ceramic junk.&nbsp; All the seals were still fine.=
&nbsp; Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff came from.&nbsp; We=
nt through every inch of the induction system.&nbsp; Finally Jason Hutchiso=
n (my other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code.&nbsp; While the RV was s=
tanding on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran back up=
 the manifold and in the exhaust port.&nbsp; That is what was grinding.&nbs=
p; Crap.&nbsp; Now the entire thing is off the firewall including the engin=
e mount.&nbsp; All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything loose =
or missing).&nbsp; I spent the morning looking under the panel for any loos=
e or broken wiring, but found none.&nbsp; When I get the EC-2 out, Jason wa=
nts to plug it into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors test.&nb=
sp; If that checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look.&nbsp; I=
 don't know what else to check.&nbsp; The engine quit just like
 somebody reached over and turned off the ignition.&nbsp; No stumble, no hi=
ccup, just instant silence.&nbsp; I honestly do not know if the prop was tu=
rning or not.&nbsp; I suspect not, due to the silence and the fact that one=
 blade is untouched.<BR><BR>As you can see from the photos, there was somet=
hing going on with Rotor 1.&nbsp; Wear is apparent down stream from the plu=
g holes and all 3 apex seals are starting to chip in the center.&nbsp; Ther=
e is quite a lot of carbon also on the rotors after 170 hours.<BR><BR>Going=
 forward, I have decided to look at resale value for if/when my RV-12 days =
arrive.&nbsp; This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it.&nbsp; The rotary ha=
s given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have no regrets, b=
ut this is an opportunity to make some changes, and parts are already on th=
e way.&nbsp; I will still be hanging out at the engine tent at S-n-F and wh=
erever else gatherings happen.&nbsp; Hope to be flying by the first
 of next year....<BR><BR>I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about w=
hat might have gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear =
in mind I am just looking at a pile of parts and wires at this point.&nbsp;=
 Both fuel pumps were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor wor=
ked fine.<BR><BR>Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI Moni=
tor (Ed's),&nbsp; Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of en=
gine parts (my whole 14-year stash) available!&nbsp; And priced to sell!<BR=
><FONT color=3D#888888><BR>Bill Eslick<BR>RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A<BR>750 Hou=
rs<BR><BR><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></di=
v></body></html>
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