X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5112914 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 14:17:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=N51NbO8il5ceF3O5QXL5DFOcR5MMyIHchjkopOFKQr8= c=1 sm=0 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:17 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=kN6MfT5seis2oC4Dsu4A:9 a=a0YKWyqan_MDUsIpGikA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=DZbG02bm3RMKVx2ELMoA:9 a=Dabibq_hWemDXJWU-wEA:7 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.175.135 Received: from [174.110.175.135] ([174.110.175.135:56174] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id BD/7B-01343-F2F626E4; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 18:17:19 +0000 Message-ID: <03F8CC30B3D74F78905447219C3A87FB@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Tuning 20B Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:17:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01CC6A44.2AE0FCD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CC6A44.2AE0FCD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, No experience with trying to tune a rotary at 6700 + feet density = altitude. But, 20.5 " Hg MP seems a bit low at WOT - as I can get 22" = while flying at that altitude, but then perhaps not that far off given = your operating location.=20 First, I would double check the cold start wiring - it really sounds = like you could have it wire backwards - the reason I say that is that = when I accidently turn mine on when the engine is at idle the engine = immediately starts to bog and run rough. By fact that when you turn = your cold start switch "ON" it runs smooth strong indicates to me that = its acting in reverse. So I would check the wiring of the cold start = and the injector switches. Regarding your idle. I could be wrong, but my understanding is indeed = MODE 3 adjusts the overall flow to all injectors (may be different on = the 3 rotor), a value of 128 is what I use/see on my two rotor. It is = the only mode that permits adjusting the primary injector flow. Mode 6 = permits adjusting the secondary flow separately. It could be that you have the overall MODE 3 adjustment a bit too rich = at 168. The fact that you have to lean it considerably also indicates = that. The fact that the engine gets rough if you try to add more fuel = could also indicate too much fuel - excessive fuel getting into you = muffler/exhaust could lead to back firing. =20 On the other hand your O2 sensor at one bar (presumably from the lean = end) would seem to indicate too lean. Is if possible that your O2 = sensor is just in one of the headers for one of the rotors and while = that rotor might be lean - the other rotors could be running rich? Or = do you have it located where more than one rotor's exhaust hits it? = Does the O2 sensor indicator ever show more than one bar???? I would suggest adjusting the MODE 3 at idle until you get a nice = solid idle (try 128 or just keep decreasing until the idle smooths out). = Then I would go to Mode 6 (on the two rotor, I assume it's the same on = the 3 rotor) which is the secondary injector differential adjustment. = Then I would increase that value until you get the high end response you = are looking for. I think you may have it a bit too rich to get a good = idle. This based on 2 rotor viewpoint. Good luck Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: coastiefamily4=20 Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 1:05 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Tuning 20B I have just finished setting MODE 3. I am tuning it at 6700ft here in = Colorado Springs and I could only get 20.5 MP running at 6000 RPMs. It = is running smooth, but I think it could be smoother. I will finish it = with MODE 1. I had to set the Injector flow rate at 163. Just finished trying to adjusted the idle setting in MODE 2 and I am = still having a difficult time getting the engine to smooth out at idle. = While at 1800 rpms with cold start off, fuel pressure at 38psi I have = to really lean it out to get it to run smoothly, it is at a setting that = is too lean and the engine tries to quit. The O2 reading in just one = bar on the scale. Then when I try to increase the mixture she get really = really rough and occasionally will backfire. =20 Then when I switch back to MODE 0 and place the cold start switch on she = begins to purr nicely and she is very smoothly. =20 I am a little stumped, I know when the cold start is turned on it = doubles the fuel, but at idle with only the primaries firing if the cold = start is turned on will it fire both the primary and secondaries or = double the flow on just the primaries and not fire the secondaries? If = I new the answer to this it would help diagnose the issue. =20 I am also battling oil leaks. I have a few of the oil pan bolts = leaking, I am going to have to pull then out and fill clean the oil out = and then place them back in with pro seal. I tried with grey gasket = maker, with no joy. I think i might have also have a leak coming from = one of the bolts on the mounting plate of the RD1C. I am going to have = to look into this leak a little farther. Never ending oil leaks. I can handle to leaks, at least I know where they are. Any suggestions with the idle tuning. I think I might have to purchase the Data Logger from Tracy in order to = see all the values. Luckily, I already wire for it, I just have to hook = it up. Tim ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CC6A44.2AE0FCD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tim,
 
No experience with trying to tune a rotary at = 6700 + feet=20 density altitude. But,  20.5 " Hg MP seems a bit low at WOT - = as I can=20 get 22" while flying at that altitude, but then perhaps not that far off = given=20 your operating location. 
 
First, I  would  double check the cold = start=20 wiring - it really sounds like you could have it wire backwards - the = reason I=20 say that is that when I accidently turn mine on when the engine is at = idle the=20 engine immediately starts to bog and run rough.  By fact that when = you turn=20 your cold start switch "ON" it runs smooth strong indicates to me that = its=20 acting in reverse.  So I would check the wiring of the cold start = and the=20 injector switches.
 
Regarding your idle.  I could be wrong, but = my=20 understanding is indeed MODE 3  adjusts the overall flow to all = injectors=20 (may be different on the 3 rotor), a value of 128 is what I use/see on = my two=20 rotor.  It is the only mode that permits adjusting the primary = injector=20 flow.  Mode 6 permits adjusting the secondary flow = separately.
 
 It could be that you have the overall MODE = 3=20 adjustment a bit too rich at 168.  The fact that you have to lean = it=20 considerably also indicates that.  The fact that the engine gets = rough if=20 you try to add more fuel could also indicate too much fuel - excessive = fuel=20 getting into you muffler/exhaust could lead to back firing.  =
 
On the other hand your O2 sensor at one bar = (presumably=20 from the lean end) would seem to indicate too lean.  Is if possible = that=20 your O2 sensor is just in one of the headers for one of the rotors and = while=20 that rotor might be lean - the other rotors could be running rich?  = Or do=20 you have it located where more than one rotor's exhaust hits it?  = Does the=20 O2 sensor indicator ever show more than one bar????
 
  I would suggest adjusting the MODE 3 at = idle until=20 you get a nice solid idle (try 128 or just keep decreasing until the = idle=20 smooths out).  Then I would go to Mode 6 (on the two rotor, = I assume=20 it=92s the same on the 3 rotor) which is the secondary injector = differential=20 adjustment.  Then I would increase that value until you get the = high end=20 response you are looking for.  I think you may have it a bit too = rich to=20 get a good idle.  This based on 2 rotor viewpoint.
 
Good luck
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 1:05 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tuning 20B

I have just finished setting MODE 3.  I am tuning it = at=20 6700ft here in Colorado Springs and I could only get 20.5 MP running at = 6000=20 RPMs. It is running smooth, but I think it could be smoother.  I = will=20 finish it with MODE 1.  I had to set the Injector flow rate at=20 163.

Just finished trying to adjusted the idle setting in MODE 2 = and I am=20 still having a difficult time getting the engine to smooth out at = idle. =20 While at 1800 rpms with cold start off, fuel pressure at 38psi  I = have to=20 really lean it out to get it to run smoothly, it is at a setting = that  is=20 too lean and the engine tries to quit. The O2 reading in just one bar on = the=20 scale. Then when I try to increase the mixture she get really really = rough and=20 occasionally will backfire. 

Then when I switch back to = MODE 0 and=20 place the cold start switch on she begins to purr nicely and she is very = smoothly.   

I am a little stumped, I know when the = cold start=20 is turned on it doubles the fuel, but at idle with only the primaries = firing if=20 the cold start is turned on will it fire both the primary and = secondaries or=20 double the flow on just the primaries and not fire the = secondaries?  If I=20 new the answer to this it would help diagnose the issue. 

I = am also=20 battling oil leaks.  I have a few of the oil pan bolts leaking, I = am going=20 to have to pull then out and fill clean the oil out and then place them = back in=20 with pro seal.  I tried with grey gasket maker, with no joy.  = I think=20 i might have also have a leak coming from one of the bolts on the = mounting plate=20 of the RD1C.  I am going to have to look into this leak a little=20 farther.  Never ending oil leaks.

 I can handle to = leaks, at=20 least I know where they are.

Any suggestions with the idle=20 tuning.

 I think I might have to purchase the Data Logger = from Tracy=20 in order to see all the values. Luckily, I already wire for it, I just = have to=20 hook it up.


Tim

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