Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #56281
From: Al Wick <alwick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Dennis Haverlah Fuel System...or any others, for that matter.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:04:04 -0700
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
I'm really concerned for some of these fuel designs. The fuel bleed has nothing to do with vapor lock. Virtually no effect at all.
 
The bleed only helps if you blew your plumbing from tank to pump....and don't want to fix the mistake. If you messed up your plumbing you DON'T have a self priming fuel pump. Then the bleed solves the problem. It lowers the pressure in the fuel rail and allows the pump to move air into the fuel rails. All fuel pumps are really poor at compressing air. Impossible to compress air to 35 psi.
 
Let's say you decided to place your fuel pump ABOVE your fuel tanks. In this case, the pump inlet can't get wet. It's not self priming as a result. The fuel bleed is your only solution for priming your fuel pumps.
 
How to prove if I need fuel bleed? Drain all fuel from tank and lines. Add 1 gallon to tank. Turn fuel selector to "on" and time how long it takes for fuel to exit rails. If 7 seconds pass without fuel being pumped, you know you blew your plumbing from tank to pump.
 
What's Vapor lock? When you put a pan of water on the stove, those bubbles coming from the bottom of pan are O2 coming out of solution. That's the Vapor. Air leaving the liquid. This always happens at the lowest pressure point in the system. Almost always at fuel pump inlet because the pump has to reduce pressure to flow fuel. If you had clear fuel line at pump inlet, you could slowly pinch the line and watch bubbles form. It's really cool...and educational.
 
Buy a Hodges fuel vapor tester. Measure vapor point of your fuel. Now measure pressure of fuel line next to pump inlet. The difference in those two pressures is your vapor lock safety margin. That's it! That's the definition of vapor lock.
So vapor lock is very simple....except a bunch of things affect those pressures. Temperature, type of fuel, type of fuel filter.
 
What's the best fuel design to prevent vapor lock? Copy any auto mfg method. They all use the same method because it's SOOO effective. OEM fuel designs minimize every REAL risk we have in our aircraft. They use self cleaning filters that have around 10 or 20 times more surface area than stupid in line filters. They minimize pressure drop at pump inlet by using large coarse filters there. Submerged pumps. Every car mfg uses the same system. Do you know how rare that is? They do it because the wet design with self cleaning filters eliminates all historical failures.
I recently converted my sys to automotive style. Details at bottom of page:
 
You can prove you have a safe system long before you ever fly. You can build a fuel sys way way safer than traditional aircraft types.
 
-al wick
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:53 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dennis Haverlah Fuel System...or any others, for that matter.

A logical cure for a common problem. Well done.

Lynn E. Hanover
BTW, what made me decide to do this was some reading I was doing on the forums.  The chamber in the base that holds the pressurized fuel also has an 1/8"NPT outlet meant for a fuel pressure gauge.  I was considering using this for the pressure bleed connection.  Some of the hot-rodders were complaining about how the Aeromotive regulators weren't holding pressure after the fuel pumps were shut down.  They traced their woes to poor machining of the steel ball's seat on the base's post.

Their spending time and energy to clean up the machining to make a perfect seal, so I went out and destroyed some beautiful machine work to make a terrible seal.  Go figure.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 14, 2011 6:38 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dennis Haverlah Fuel System...or any others, for that matter.

On 08/15/2011 01:27 AM, Ernest Christley wrote:

I removed the 4 screws, wrapped up the base in some shop rags, leaving just the top of the post exposed, then used a cut-off wheel in my Dremel to make a deep scratch in the steel ball's seat on the top of the post.

I put it all back together, tested that the pumps made 60psi, regulated it back down to 50, then watched the pressure bleed off in about 5 seconds after I switched the pumps off.  Then I went in the house to recover from the gas fumes.

This method doesn't add any weight, connections or extra hose, but is 100% effective at relieving the fuel line pressure on shutdown.

BTW, what made me decide to do this was some reading I was doing on the forums.  The chamber in the base that holds the pressurized fuel also has an 1/8"NPT outlet meant for a fuel pressure gauge.  I was considering using this for the pressure bleed connection.  Some of the hot-rodders were complaining about how the Aeromotive regulators weren't holding pressure after the fuel pumps were shut down.  They traced their woes to poor machining of the steel ball's seat on the base's post.

Their spending time and energy to clean up the machining to make a perfect seal, so I went out and destroyed some beautiful machine work to make a terrible seal.  Go figure.

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