X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5091705 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:34:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.56; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from omta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.52]) by qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LDYu1h00317dt5G56DaQW2; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:34:24 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([75.196.232.148]) by omta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LDaD1h00M3Cm7Nr3ZDaGkh; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:34:22 +0000 Message-ID: <6AE89988112943ED900D10A28C5B706B@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis Question Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 08:34:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CC5A5C.F268D770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3538.513 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3538.513 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CC5A5C.F268D770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One other comment on boosting =E2=80=93 bear in mind that I am NOT = boosting my 13-B. If you use a supercharger, then the engine has to produce the extra = power to run the supercharger. That means more fuel burn, and more heat = to be rejected by the engine. So to get an increased power to the = propeller, you have to generate the desired increase, plus the = supercharger power. If you use a turbo charger, the boost energy comes from unused energy in = the exhaust stream, but you end up with increased mass under the cowl = that is glowing cherry red. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase one testing Completed From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 6:36 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis Question Sam, As you find in this "hobby" there are always trade offs. First, = technically there is no reason you could not do what you propose - = however, you will add weight and complexity. A poor intake affects both = N/A and forced induction - its just with forced induction you are paying = in a different way to overcome any defficiencies in your intake.=20 If going that route, I personally would prefer the centrifugal type = belt/gear driven blower over the roots type which has historically had = the poorest efficiency. On the other hand, if you are not going to = "boost" above ambient pressure - then I think I would concentrate on = getting a good N/A intake. Good luck on your project whichever decision/approach you take. Super = and Turbo chargers have both been used successfully. just my $0.02\ Ed From: Samuel Treffinger=20 Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 1:01 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Renesis Question I think my brain has had a meltdown: I am thinking about = "supernormalizing" the Renesis engine. Is this even possible. The idea = is to use a by-passable positive displacement type blower (roots = type...probably an eaton m90) fed to an intercooler that then sends air = to the engine. If my thinking is correct, and it probably isn't, this = would eliminate the complex N/A intake, while not over-boosting the = Renesis engine. Also, the supercharger being a positive displacement = blower would in theory produce more boost than is needed by the engine = at all rpm levels, eliminating the "peeky" torque of boosted engines. = The excess (above standard intake) pressure would be controlled via an = automatic or manual waste-gate. Please shoot my idea down if it is = insane, but i would like some constructive criticism if it is available. = Sam ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CC5A5C.F268D770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One other comment on boosting =E2=80=93 bear in mind that I am NOT = boosting my=20 13-B.
 
If you use a supercharger, then the engine has to produce the extra = power=20 to run the supercharger. That means more fuel burn, and more heat to be = rejected=20 by the engine. So to get an increased power to the propeller, you have = to=20 generate the desired increase, plus the supercharger power.
 
If you use a turbo charger, the boost energy comes from unused = energy in=20 the exhaust stream, but you end up with increased mass under the cowl = that is=20 glowing cherry red.
 
 
Bill=20 Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase one testing = Completed
 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 6:36 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis Question
 
Sam, As you find in this "hobby" there  are = always=20 trade offs.  First, technically there is no reason you could not do = what=20 you propose - however, you will add weight and complexity.  A poor = intake=20 affects both N/A and forced induction - its just with forced induction = you are=20 paying in a different way to overcome any defficiencies in your intake.=20
 
If going that route, I personally would prefer = the=20 centrifugal type belt/gear driven blower over the roots type which has=20 historically had the poorest efficiency.  On the other hand, if you = are not=20 going to "boost" above ambient pressure - then I think I would = concentrate on=20 getting a good N/A intake.
 
Good luck on your project whichever = decision/approach you=20 take.  Super and Turbo chargers have both been used=20 successfully.
 
just my $0.02\
 
Ed
 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 1:01 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Renesis Question
 
I think my brain has had a meltdown: I am thinking = about=20 "supernormalizing" the Renesis engine. Is this even possible. The idea = is to use=20 a by-passable positive displacement type blower (roots type...probably = an eaton=20 m90) fed to an intercooler that then sends air to the engine. If my = thinking is=20 correct, and it probably isn't, this would eliminate the complex N/A = intake,=20 while not over-boosting the Renesis engine. Also, the supercharger being = a=20 positive displacement blower would in theory produce more boost than is = needed=20 by the engine at all rpm levels, eliminating the "peeky" torque of = boosted=20 engines. The excess (above standard intake) pressure would be controlled = via an=20 automatic or manual waste-gate. Please shoot my idea down if it is = insane, but i=20 would like some constructive criticism if it is available.=20
 
Sam
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