X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm27.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.154] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5081130 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Aug 2011 18:58:03 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.154; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.107] by nm27.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2011 22:57:29 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.89] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2011 22:57:29 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1026.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2011 22:57:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 108003.32220.bm@omp1026.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 99970 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Aug 2011 22:57:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1312412247; bh=QN9RImtrSB2+D7UsA8WNq4onsZRz7OWiiIc50s06SU8=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=B9QDfQWyjv/sz4v/HWN5rhZjuxSgEuVzNvjCekq/XiqzRXqFA6Ha/4P7p18hV58wZJhALxXrrV/lwtKmQJHjnkQlKTKrNvO4ubbNJ502JUkc8vPTfdPJ4rFJL1FufDpsEzM6dzfaZ6D6ypXkP+Ms/R0N5/82qWS+epwliZMDAiI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=lRCvr7U+Ys/OmbKJ/7C2qbUlSZr3q3UjgsK3gO3CVXg1vjdkpyzRzyl12bOnZ7mQYhOVnbbCn2vbgxZPgNIWhkQ3hHUmeR+iz3oDbm9Q2HXs1VOkoJLwezL16B3gu7fRFUUvs7L4uxu82U4ms6OvyU52128kSevsrzvQHfzZwbE=; X-YMail-OSG: YkhFlocVM1lKkVO7TJqJnORhVLiuPGD_T47Js9qgEERBeUt mN1jlkrpSyTYWkEwfkP9PdMtj16hsXPHjfbh6N0WsCMiX8NXieC70yl8cC1w FNIkZJy_K45mds9QGuYVLFwaEZJsi.IPlzpk0Dw4v9paiEngt61wAjXSJDsy 2lT7TpqjQFM8hEZiYFx.t4zJ.Nsih5Lua05Do6mr1ULqf8d.xVOiFLJdDeoZ KGYSSOXklzjaaQ0oo9Z8u1Pmu.sv4u1RTk_Ok6gpf9yal.y7jSlSgMmpI4_t zVT34QmFNdtHlJOpKS57HJ9JLa.MfZ6_ykXmLs.KRYpjTn5DeJmdC0LsgvsV BqO8lLXuoFiJTw2ZL9w_WPBGojquyyhC6q4s0WzvZzZ14gj9LodwqqVRPq8y pQFsWyCgrFr5d03qn1kHiNRMBzkpDpo3B6vaI.cFgsUkfL_zAQxlYYKSlrj7 TDc1Jr6QuTdSVfWstyv4- Received: from [208.114.40.181] by web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:57:27 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.310352 References: Message-ID: <1312412247.95616.YahooMailNeo@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 15:57:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1219448247-1312412247=:95616" --0-1219448247-1312412247=:95616 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat,=0A=A0 Your point is well taken..............In my case I am not taking= cooling air from behind the prop=0Aand my engine cowl will taper directly = to the 16 inch spinner plus the entire cowl and spinner=0Aare considered li= ft producing on the Dyke Delta............Plus for me the esthetics's of th= e cowl=0Aand spinner please me (looks cool)................<:)=0A=0AKelly T= royer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/E= C2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A= =0AFrom: Pat Panzera =0ATo: Rotary motors= in aircraft =0ASent: Wednesday, August 3, 201= 1 3:00 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing=0A=0A=0AEvery= part of ever aircraft can do one or more of the following. =0AIt can add w= eight=0AIt can add drag=0AIt can add lift.=0A=0AThrust is a form of lift, e= specially when produced by a propeller.=A0=0ADrag can be on the=A0airframe= =A0or the engine, and is a bad thing.=0AWeight ultimately causes drag.=0A= =0ASo... if you have to carry around the extra weight of the first 16 inche= s of a 72" prop, why would you want to cover it up? Why not have at least h= alf of that 16 inches produce forward thrust? ...or at a minimum, help cool= the engine?=0A=0AThe large spinner is at best a band-aid, that will cause = aerodynamic drag in order to=A0shield=A0the aerodynamic drag from a=A0honor= ably=A0designed=A0propeller, that causes drag on the engine (shielded=A0or = not) and additional weight on the aircraft.=0A=0AI suppose that if you MUST= use the IVOPROP, then this is an effective way to minimize the negative ef= fects of using the prop, but by far, the tradeoff just isn't worth it.=0A= =0AThe=A0allure=A0of in-flight=A0adjustability is understandable, but in re= ality, it's difficult to beat a properly designed fixed-pitch prop.=0A=0A= =0AOn Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A= =0ADoug, Pat and All,=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 When Tracy tested the "I= VO" against his "Performance Prop" he gained a lot in takeoff and climb=0A>= performance but lost considerable top speed and coolant temp went up.......= ......He attributed=A0both the=0A>speed loss and higher coolant temps to th= e flat hub area of the "IVO" blades which his spinner did not=0A>cover (add= ed drag) and essentially blocked some coolant air from his radiators.......= .........This flat area=0A>also as has been noted sucks up hp but produces = no thrust..............=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have a three blade 74 i= nch electric in-flight adjust "IVO" prop=A0for my "Dyke Delta"=A0that if I = live long =0A>enough to get in the air will have a 16 inch diameter=A0 "Mus= tang 2" spinner which will cover most of this=0A>flat area of the "IVO" bla= de hub.............The "IVO" seems to work well in the pushers from all rep= orts=0A>since the flat blade hubs are=A0mostly=A0shielded by the engine cow= l in these installations............IMHO=A0=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DE= LTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MIS= TRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>From:= Pat Panzera =0A>To: Rotary motors in air= craft =0A>Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 8:48 P= M=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Jim S= mith with his 150 HP, auto-fuel RV-6 is reaching speeds of 200 mph TAS usin= g a fixed-pitch, three-blade wood Elippse propeller. =0A>=0A>=0A>That's nea= rly 30 mph more than the Ivo, on the same? power.=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue,= Aug 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM, wrote:=0A>=0A>http://www.sdsefi= .com/rv13.htm=0A>>=0A>>Ross did quite a bit of prop testing in turbo subie = powered RV-6. =A0I've e-mailed him a few times regarding performance, mx is= sues, etc. and he still thinks it's a good way to go as long as the Magnum = hi pitch blades are used (at least for a/c w/RV type performance).=0A>>Sent= on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE=0A>>--=0A>>Homepage: = =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>>Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancair= online.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A> --0-1219448247-1312412247=:95616 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pat,
  Your point is= well taken..............In my case I am not taking cooling air from behind= the prop
and my engine cowl w= ill taper directly to the 16 inch spinner plus the entire cowl and spinner<= /SPAN>
are considered lift = producing on the Dyke Delta......= ......Plus for me the est= hetics's of the cowl
and spinner please m= e (looks cool)................<:)
 
Kelly Troyer
"= DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS= "_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= Pat Panzera <edito= r.contactmagazine@gmail.com>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>Sent: Wednesday, August 3= , 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing

Every part of ever aircraft can do one or more of t= he following.=20
It can add weight
It can add drag
It can add lift.

Thrust is a form of lift, especially when produced by a propeller.&nbs= p;
Drag can be on the airframe or the engine, and is a bad thin= g.
Weight ultimately causes drag.

So... if you have to carry around the extra weight of the first 16 inc= hes of a 72" prop, why would you want to cover it up? Why not have at least= half of that 16 inches produce forward thrust? ...or at a minimum, help co= ol the engine?

The large spinner is at best a band-aid, that will cause aerodynamic d= rag in order to shield the aerodynamic drag from a honorably=  designed propeller, that causes drag on the engine (shielded&nbs= p;or not) and additional weight on the aircraft.

I suppose that if you MUST use the IVOPROP, then this is an effective way to minimize the negative eff= ects of using the prop, but by far, the tradeoff just isn't worth it.

The allure of in-flight adjustability is understandable, but in reality, it's difficult= to beat a properly designed fixed-pitch prop.


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Kelly= Troyer <keltro@att.net><= /SPAN> wrote:
Doug, Pat and All,
 
       When Tracy tested the "IVO<= /SPAN>" against his "Performance Prop" he gained a lot in takeoff and climb=
performance but lost considerable top speed and coolant temp wen= t up.............He attributed both the
speed loss and higher coolant temps to= the flat hub area of the "IVO" blades which his spinner did not
cover (added drag) and essentially blocked some coolant air from= his radiators................This flat area
also as has been noted sucks up hp but produces no thrust.......= .......
 
      I have a three blade 74 inch elec= tric in-flight adjust "<= SPAN id=3Dmisspell-17 class=3Dmark>IVO" prop for = my "Dyke Delta" that if I live long
enough to get in the air will have a 16 inch diameter  "Mus= tang 2" spinner which will cover most of this
flat area of the "IVO" blade hub.............The "IVO" seems to work well in= the pushers from all reports
since the flat blade hubs are mostly shielded by the engine cowl in these installations...= .........IMHO 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Pat Panzera <editor.contactmagazine@gmail.c= om>
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net>
Sen= t: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO = testing

Jim Smith with his 150 HP, auto-fuel R= V-6 is reaching speeds of 200 mph TAS using a fixed-pitch, three-bla= de wood Elippse propeller.=20

That's nearly 30 mph more than the Ivo, on the same?= power. 


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM, <dlomheim@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.sdsefi.com/rv13.htm

Ross did quit= e a bit of prop testing in turbo subie powered RV-6.  I've e-ma= iled him a few times regarding performance, mx issues, etc. and he s= till thinks it's a good way to go as long as the Magnum hi pitch blades are= used (at least for a/c w/RV type performance).
Sent on the Sprint=AE No= w Network from my Bla= ckBerry=AE
--
Homep= age:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



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