X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from outbound-mail.vgs.untd.com ([64.136.55.15] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5050637 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 12:19:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.55.15; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juno.com; s=alpha; t=1310573913; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=gVpkhIbbCFvyKrj//jzAm3iIgtZjo7VJgsuqFsD/uxRKfQEgvQGM7slHXk5/QsHQ+ 6Oko54wdKwurDEPbFlF/RP3xfxH3leoOFfUvV6iY8QGNCqQTOmAfp/eBzLu7ASMfNX XOE5jeHkDsl2RzefO7nIHtn4mKUKoGpKFhsYEKLo= Received: from Penny (50-39-184-188.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net [50.39.184.188]) by smtpout02.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABHB5TLDAE9SZUA for (sender ); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8275AD1BDB7E49C684D6EBC222D576F0@Penny> From: "Al Wick" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1B failure Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:18:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0194_01CC413D.C8F0B350" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 X-UNTD-BodySize: 7752 X-ContentStamp: 19:9:3260693977 X-MAIL-INFO:286868159189c5e86909ac159cac8ccdf86148acddbcf55c91dd4861dde5dd71b57938dc6898158815c891598c0ca159e889557939e1cde199315899cd0535cd7511b90d0c4c1d9d7d2d2c1d0ca579a558952df9a5b961f8c1f8c1f1c8c168f17168f1e8f90581759de811cd5c7531add9dddd18a9dca855f895c1e548f8684d4d084859a1158909c809ec785c11b5694d1c559c78e56c9c65f50908453d19552d4191b56cfc6da50cbd3c193c81c14c6549002d4199b8b8392c58a588cde19d X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkGu+oMplZC2rMpxWY7oQVzxBH3GXSqUm+w== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.181.42.32|smtpout02.vgs.untd.com|smtpout02.vgs.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0194_01CC413D.C8F0B350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ernest. I also came up with this wild idea I could have zero clearance at = end of=20 > input shaft. I tried it and surprise, it worked. I called it a "cage = > cap". See my web site.=20 > = http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index_files/Page404.htm= > =20 I'm not sure I understand. Is the pictured shaft the input or output = shaft? Is the basic idea to just put a stiff=20 spring between the input and output shaft so that one is always pushed = forward and the other always pushed to the=20 rear...eliminating the possibility of the input shaft building = inertia? -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0194_01CC413D.C8F0B350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Hi Ernest.
 
<Is the pictured shaft the input or output shaft?
The shaft pictured is the input shaft. It's 8.42 inches long. = Spline at one=20 end of shaft mated with drive plate. Helical gear at other end is the = sun gear=20 for planet cage.
 
<Is the basic idea to just put a stiff
<spring between = the input=20 and output shaft
 
Yes, that's the basic concept. Except = the "spring"=20 is solid if flex exceeds .005"
 
3 basic concepts to the = redesign:
 
1) The original design controlled input = shaft fore=20 aft thrust by stopping movement at the two ends of the shaft. 8.42" = apart. This=20 makes the design sensitive to temperature. Clearance changed with temp. = I=20 controlled thrust on both ends of sun gear, only 1" apart. So = temperature can no=20 longer affect end thrust clearance. This also allows reduced clearance.=20
 
2) The "cage cap" I used acts like both = a spring=20 and stop. It flexes .005", then becomes solid when it touches end of = output=20 shaft. Wear marks on cage cap told me how often it flexed that .005".=20
 
3) I didn't allow any assumptions. I = found ways to=20 prove clearances...modeling clay is great way to measure clearance. = Found ways=20 to prove how just how much difference design made. Measured spline wear = pattern=20 width, etc. You could prove how much fore aft movement you have = just by=20 measuring wear pattern on your sun gear. Great way to forecast future = fatigue=20 failure. I even put a few kernels of white Styrofoam at thrust bearing = to prove=20 I had adequate oil flow. Operate drive for 3 seconds, take apart, foam = moved=20 from key location.
 
I know it's tough to follow my = descriptions. One of=20 those things you have to see to understand fully.
 
-al wick
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ernest=20 Christley
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 = 8:19=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1B=20 failure

Al Wick wrote:

> I also came up with this = wild idea I=20 could have zero clearance at end of
> input shaft. I tried it = and=20 surprise, it worked. I called it a "cage
> cap". See my web = site.=20
> http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index_files/P= age404.htm
> =20

I'm not sure I understand.  Is the pictured shaft the = input or=20 output shaft?  Is the basic idea to just put a stiff
spring = between=20 the input and output shaft so that one is always pushed forward and = the other=20 always pushed to the
rear...eliminating the possibility of the = input shaft=20 building inertia?

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve and=20 UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
------=_NextPart_000_0194_01CC413D.C8F0B350--