X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.163] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5047119 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 20:54:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.163; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p6A0rtV3025295 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 20:53:55 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.1191.1f321b6 (44047) for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 20:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.156]) by cia-dd07.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD073-d4354e18f81ca2; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 20:53:50 -0400 Received: from webmail-d169 (webmail-d169.sim.aol.com [205.188.252.84]) by smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMD034-d4354e18f81ca2; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 20:53:48 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 20:53:48 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 50.46.146.205 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CE0CB2F6363A76_D44_3A145_webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33953-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.146.205 by webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com (205.188.252.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 09 Jul 2011 20:53:48 -0400 Message-Id: <8CE0CB2F63177B4-D44-1864E@webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CE0CB2F6363A76_D44_3A145_webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After reading the literature from magnecor, I think I'll just go with thei= r EMI suppressing leads, which I recieved in the mail yesterday. I just bo= rrowed a smaller prop so I can achieve the higher RPMs on the ground, now= to go ahead and start doing some testing on the ground. Everything else= about the plane seems satisfactory- it flies and handles well on the grou= nd and in the air, the engine cools well, I just need to figure out this= misfiring thing before Igo up again. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 12:03 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires I tried shielding solid wire ignition leads on my first engine back in 199= 4. It caused the old 2nd gen coils to malfunction and miss badly for some= reason. Didn't try it on other coils. The spiral wound wires are the= way to go IMO. Never had a problem with ignition or radio noise since us= ing them. Tracy On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: Brian Apparently the shield you are proposeing is not a good Idea..........Th= e reason why is noted in the "Magnacor" link in my previous post................ =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: "bktrub@aol.com" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires Ok, theory is nice, I prefer to just think it is all magic. My apologies,= but I am the product of our public school system : ) =20 What I'd like to know is this- am I fabricating the wires correctly? I cut= the insulation about 1/2 inch back from the inner conductor, and then cri= mp the terminal so that the conductor is folded back against the wire unde= r the terminal crimp. There is no outer braid or anything which actually grounds against the eng= ine. I am thinking of putting an outer braid around the wires and then gro= unding that on one end.=20 =20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:11 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires To expand on that for the electron-challenged, an inductor is effectively= a frequency dependent resistor. The higher the frequency, the higher the= resistance. So, the fundamental pulse to the plug makes it through (thoug= h slowed slightly), while the harmonics (noise) that were generated can't= get past the extra resistance presented to them. The reverse is true for a capacitor. That's one of the reasons why you see= capacitors with one leg tied to the power supply & the other to ground.= The capacitor blocks DC but passes higher frequencies (the noise) to grou= nd. I have no doubt that the above will make physicists cringe, but it's close= enough to working knowledge for us builders to use. Charlie On 07/09/2011 08:28 AM, Tracy wrote:=20 In this case "shielded" is the wrong term. The spiral wire does not actu= ally shield the noise, it prevents the noise from being transmitted. It= acts as an inductor to prevent the propagation of the noise generated at= the spark gap from propagating up the wire. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:09 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: It has to do with the resistance of the long thin Monel wire. An impedance= mismatch and inductive reactance. What the mechanism is I do not know. Th= at is why Tracy is here, to explain such matters. =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 In a message dated 7/8/2011 11:08:09 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, SBoese@u= wyo.edu writes: My last massage got a little garbled, the way I have my wires configured= now, the conductor and spiral wrap are exposed and folded under the crimp= ed teminal ends, so aren't both the conductor and the spiral wrap acting= as a conductor? What is doing the shielding? =20 Brian Trubee ----------MB_8CE0CB2F6363A76_D44_3A145_webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
After reading the literature from magnecor, I think I'll just go with= their EMI suppressing leads, which I recieved in the mail yesterday. I ju= st borrowed a smaller prop so I can achieve the higher RPMs on the ground,= now to go ahead and start doing some testing on the ground. Everything el= se about the plane seems satisfactory- it flies and handles well on the gr= ound and in the air, the engine cools well, I just need to figure out this= misfiring thing before Igo up again.
 
 
Brian Trubee
 


 


-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 12:03 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires

I tried shield= ing solid wire ignition leads on my first engine back in 1994.  It ca= used the old 2nd gen coils to malfunction and miss badly for some reason.&= nbsp;  Didn't try it on other coils.  The spiral wound wires are= the way to go IMO.  Never had a problem with ignition or radio noise= since using them.

Tracy


On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net><= /SPAN> wrote:
Brian
   Apparently the shield you are proposeing is not a= good Idea..........The reason why is noted in the
"Magnacor" link in my previous post............= ....
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: "bktrub@aol.com" <b= ktrub@aol.com>

To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyrotary@lancairon= line.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 9, 20= 11 11:51 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= sheilded plug wires

Ok,  theory is nice,= I prefer to just think it is all magic. My apologies, but I am= the product of our public school system : )
 
What I'd like to know is= this- am I fabricating the wires correctly? I cut the insulation abo= ut 1/2 inch back from the inner conductor, and then crimp the terminal so= that the conductor is folded back against the wire under the terminal cri= mp.
There is no outer braid or anything which actually grounds against th= e engine. I am thinking of putting an outer braid around the wires and the= n grounding that on one end.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceeng= land@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:11 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires

To expand on that for the electron-challenged, an inductor is effecti= vely a frequency dependent resistor. The higher the frequency, the higher= the resistance. So, the fundamental pulse to the plug makes it through (t= hough slowed slightly), while the harmonics (noise) that were generated&nb= sp; can't get past the extra resistance presented to them.

The reverse is true for a capacitor. That's one of the reasons why you see= capacitors with one leg tied to the power supply & the other to groun= d. The capacitor blocks DC but passes higher frequencies (the noise) to gr= ound.

I have no doubt that the above will make physicists cringe, but it's close= enough to working knowledge for us builders to use.

Charlie

On 07/09/2011 08:28 AM, Tracy wrote:=20
In this case "shielded" is the wrong term.   The spiral wire doe= s not actually shield the noise, it prevents the noise from being transmit= ted.    It acts as an inductor to prevent the propagation of the= noise generated at the spark gap from propagating up the wire.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:09 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote:

It has to do with the resistance of the long thin Monel wire. An impe= dance mismatch and inductive reactance. What the mechanism is I do not kno= w. That is why Tracy is here, to explain such matters.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 7/8/2011 11:08:09 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, SBoese@uwyo.edu writes= :
My last massage got a little garbled, the way I have my wires configu= red now, the conductor and spiral wrap are exposed and folded under the cr= imped teminal ends, so aren't both the conductor and the spiral wrap actin= g as a conductor? What is doing the shielding?
 
Brian Trubee




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