X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm23.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.88] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5035936 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:25:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.237.88; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from [66.94.237.198] by nm23.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2011 19:24:30 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.97] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2011 19:24:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2011 19:24:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 30755.41482.bm@omp1002.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 195 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2011 19:24:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1309289069; bh=wli5tC9HsDsZyv7L0PqPRlqhotN1Rrh4c2P1VfKSBu0=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=naI1B5FWFjhL4RRwJ/QxVadm0r+i4T2c5cUrxLZFANqqX8xzBK4HeA4IqR7kjwoFmak98cy8qUpDXND1QRiHiFbILax2rcGHZ0nm7thfXaqEW314ef/sgphfcAoO6h307qQoGbU8Zw1w22aMsR7QqmhUCaGDOz6spe1ceZwmu0c= Received: from [192.168.10.14] (ceengland@98.95.236.144 with plain) by smtp106.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2011 12:24:28 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy X-YMail-OSG: eZRJvgoVM1nOWBFGR5u6EleXrHbPHJ8VWJEIkNLpq9U12gu PLgqWWU0PsHFlzMpPeBDXpk07q6vjifS5zepI_cpbSwNapZnsC8tuUhx4.JQ aqzWbHStYcaqz4g_JnEu6CexldgguvvSDBSOO.MwJ3JpA.0930Apy.5YZAW9 s5uhSmE9iqAoPJJpKGuV3g9TTMgA_.i7UWIdjVuNfkPdN5R7YXJfRTMuF6aE dIXdFh5I4q4UAAM4Sd19OohQZWzhQfEaTzlhPIkby1TypcE3UecfGyedtepK 4q_Y.OkVlTgrall.2_tZjQKMcfLFGs0DiYcQDtP6EMghNH6oZdL3Dl_0QqIx C3C5px4VSHQW_8.2Fm4Wsexu8TgxaxZGPnQGqjwNWh.pDI1rfyxVxcGBUv5h h8iTGm.B.yBCuRw8KoeUM6lcfy36ypxQaHYE- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4E0A2A6B.90905@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:24:27 -0500 From: Charlie England Reply-To: ceengland@bellsouth.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110516 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Floscan orientation, fuel line size References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090000090201010406080200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090000090201010406080200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks, Steve. That's exactly what I needed verified about orientation of the sensor, & it'll make mounting a lot simpler for me. Charlie On 06/26/2011 03:01 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote: > > Charlie, > > This morning I did some simple tests with the floscan sensor I have on > my engine stand. This fuel system uses a stock fuel pressure > regulator and a return to the tank taken before the floscan and the > injectors. The injectors are normally dead ended as is common in > present automotive systems. For the tests, I installed an > adjustable valve and second return after the injectors to simulate > fuel flow through the injectors. The attached image shows two > orientations that were tested. Changing from the normal to the angled > and rotated position showed a decrease in fuel flow reading of 2 to 4% > at flow rates of 11.7 and 1.10 gal/hr. This could probably be taken > care of in the calibration of a system. At both flow rates, I also > introduced air into the lines and there was no indication of air > elimination being a problem. These results are for a steady flow > through the floscan, not a pulsed flow as would be the case when the > injectors are in operation, but I have not seen any indication > that this makes a significant difference. > > In my plane, I used steel fuel lines from the RX7 donor car to replace > the rubber fuel lines on the engine. These have an ID of 0.26". > This fuel system uses fuel pumps purchased from Tracy, a stock fuel > pressure regulator and return after the injectors, and a duplex > fuel selector valve. The return to one tank is AN6 aluminum line from > the valve emptying into the root rib of the fuel tank. The return to > the other tank is AN6 to the root rib of the tank and AN4 from there > to the normal vent location near the fuel filler cap. While I did not > use AN4 lines to feed the engine, there has been no difference in > the performance of these two returns that I have noticed. > > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on > behalf of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net] > *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:14 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Floscan orientation, fuel line size > > OK, 2 questions. > > 1. For those using Floscan fuel flow transducers: > > Anyone have a floscan 201 sensor that's working ok while mounted in > other than a horizontal position? My most convenient location would > have the fuel path flowing up at a 45 degree angle. In addition, the > mounting can have the wires 'up', but mounting would be a bit more > convenient with the wires pointing horizontally. > > 2. While researching Q1, I found a note from the guy who makes Airflow > Performance fuel injection systems for Lycs (they run at around 15-30 > psi), recommending 1/4" (AN-4) fuel lines firewall forward to minimize > fuel heating & vapor lock. I've already been tempted to consider this > instead of -6 (saves weight, running lines is easier, etc) because the > injection pumps & automotive systems use small diameter lines, but was > reluctant to go against 'convention'. Has anyone who's flying an > injected rotary used -4 fuel lines to feed the engine? > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------090000090201010406080200 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks, Steve. That's exactly what I needed verified about orientation of the sensor, & it'll make mounting a lot simpler for me.

Charlie

On 06/26/2011 03:01 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote:

Charlie,

 

This morning I did some simple tests with the floscan sensor I have on my engine stand.  This fuel system uses a stock fuel pressure regulator and a return to the tank taken before the floscan and the injectors.  The injectors are normally dead ended as is common in present automotive systems.  For the tests,  I installed an adjustable valve and second return after the injectors to simulate fuel flow through the injectors. The attached image shows two orientations that were tested.  Changing from the normal to the angled and rotated position showed a decrease in fuel flow reading of 2 to 4% at flow rates of 11.7 and 1.10 gal/hr. This could probably be taken care of in the calibration of a system.  At both flow rates, I also introduced air into the lines and there was no indication of air elimination being a problem.  These results are for a steady flow through the floscan, not a pulsed flow as would be the case when the injectors are in operation, but I have not seen any indication that this makes a significant difference. 

 

In my plane, I used steel fuel lines from the RX7 donor car to replace the rubber fuel lines on the engine.  These have an ID of 0.26".   This fuel system uses fuel pumps purchased from Tracy, a stock fuel pressure regulator and return after the injectors, and a duplex fuel selector valve.  The return to one tank is AN6 aluminum line from the valve emptying into the root rib of the fuel tank.  The return to the other tank is AN6 to the root rib of the tank and AN4 from there to the normal vent location near the fuel filler cap.  While I did not use AN4 lines to feed the engine, there has been no difference in the performance of these two returns that I have noticed.      

 

Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2

 

  

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Floscan orientation, fuel line size

OK, 2 questions.

1. For those using Floscan fuel flow transducers:

Anyone have a floscan 201 sensor that's working ok while mounted in other than a horizontal position? My most convenient location would have the fuel path flowing up at a 45 degree angle. In addition, the mounting can have the wires 'up', but mounting would be a bit more convenient with the wires pointing horizontally.

2. While researching Q1, I found a note from the guy who makes Airflow Performance fuel injection systems for Lycs (they run at around 15-30 psi), recommending 1/4" (AN-4) fuel lines firewall forward to minimize fuel heating & vapor lock. I've already been tempted to consider this instead of -6 (saves weight, running lines is easier, etc) because the injection pumps & automotive systems use small diameter lines, but was reluctant to go against 'convention'. Has anyone who's flying an injected rotary used -4 fuel lines to feed the engine?

Thanks,

Charlie

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