Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #55394
From: <bktrub@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Check This Try This was : [FlyRotary] This has got to stop
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:49:56 -0400
To: <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Good suggestions. I did fly on just one set of injectors once- it seemed to run pretty smoothly- I did it as a test, at 6,000 over the airport. As I recall, it seemed to be pretty smooth. I'll do some more testing on  the ground .
 
You are right about the prop- 74 dia, 88 pitch. As far as mixture- I am seeing about 5/8 scale on the mixture readout on my EM2. Adjusting it does not seem to affect the roughness. Staging is at Address 84- pretty near 18 in hg MP. I was playing around with running the engine at and near that point.
 
Brian Trubee


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 5:44 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Check This Try This was : [FlyRotary] This has got to stop

Agree, Brian, something is amiss (no pun intended).
 
One question I have - is your prop 88(Dia) x 74 (pitch) or more likely 74 (dia) x 88 (pitch)? - conventionally the diameter is mentioned first. 
 
CHECK THIS
 
One thing you may want to check. While it doesn't have any bearing on your rough running it may on your static rpm.   Two folks I know have had Catto props made for the rotary - in both cases the chord of the prop was way too much and over loaded the engine and surpressed rpm and power.
 
 Measure your cord across the broadest point in the blade.  The Props which cause folks problems measure around 8" - whereas my 74 x 88 Performance Prop chord measured 5 1/2".  Sam Hodges, Rv-7A with Renesis, had worked months trying to get his static  rpm above 5000 including making several intakes.  When we put my prop on his engine, it  immediately got 6000 + static rpm - it was the prop all along.  So measure that chord.
 
The reason for the emphasis on the prop, is that with that set up and a prop the size of mine - you should be turning 6000 rpm static (at least).  All of this referenced to sea level air density.
 
 
Another aspect, what type of air/fuel ratio indications are you getting while the engine is stumbling?  Is 18" Hg near your staging point?
 
- there is the possibility that something is happening after you stage - for example if your primary injectors were OK, then the engine would run smoothly - until the engine went to all four injectors - then if is there was a problem with one of you secondary injectors you could get rough running. 
 
Then as you suggest, it could be an ignition problem.  As you know several folks have had ignition misfiring problems using the Renesis type pulley timing mechanism - particularly at the higher rpm -apparently alignment is very critical  - I can not recall if you are using the CAS or the Pulley type.
 
TRY THIS
It is either your fuel or your ignition - try to eliminate one or the other - using an oscilloscope can help in that type of trouble shooting, but if you don’t have access or experience in using one - well, need I say more.  I would try to determine if it is fuel related first - because I think that could be the easiest to work with.
 
Here is what you can try - if you turn off power to your secondary injectors, then when you go through the staging point only the primary injectors will be firing.  Two 450 cc/min or larger primary injectors can easily get an engine up to 6000 rpm (provided you are not over propped).  So if you engine runs smoothly all the way up past 5300 rpm on primary injectors alone, then I would strongly suspect something in the secondary circuitry  (injectors, intermittent connection, etc).  So take the secondary injectors out of play by turning off their power.  While I have had no problem staying airborne on two injectors, I don't suggest you try flying with two - just do this test on the ground. 
 
IF running on just the primary you get to 5300 rpm and the engine starts to miss or run rough, then I think we can eliminate the secondary injector circuit as the problem and perhaps concentrate on the ignition.
 
That's all I can think of to suggest at the moment
 
Good luck Brian
 
Ed

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:19 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] This has got to stop


I'm going to ground my airplane until I get to the bottom of this. I can tune it on the ground and it will run just fine all the way from idle to full throttle. I get about 5300 rpm at full throttle at 29 in hg. MP. I have 12 hours in the air so far but can't get past this issue. Other than this, the plane is an absolute joy.
 
When  I get off the ground, when I go through around 5400 RPM, I start to get stumbling and engine roughness. At this RPM I am about 18 inches MP. Just below this point, I am making about 50% power and the engine will run smoothly.
 
I went to another airport and had a lot of roughness on takeoff, but I am used to it and so continued on my way to my home airport. When I got back I found out that someone at the other airport wanted to report me to FSDO because he thought my engine was going to blow up, but he didn't get my tail number.
 
So, I thought I had it sorted out before I flew today, but it's back to the drawing board. I've tried both leaning and enriching the mixture at all throttle settings, but to no avail. At and above 5400 rpm I start getting all sorts of roughness so I think that it has to be an ignition issue. My injector wiring is separated from my coil wiring, but could I be getting inductance between the different coil wiring?
 
I have a 93 13 BREW normally aspirated, 2.85 RWS redrive, EM2, EC2, 88x 74 CAtto Prop. This is getting to be really frustrating. It's got to be something simple that I'm overlooking. I don't know anyone with an ocilliscope, and have never used one.
 
Brian Trubee

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