X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm28.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.155] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5027396 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:31:35 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.155; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.105] by nm28.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jun 2011 14:31:00 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.88] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jun 2011 14:31:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1025.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jun 2011 14:31:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 258843.4150.bm@omp1025.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 72213 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jun 2011 14:30:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1308666659; bh=rHxBHJZZJrtLsb0mv7XhI9BUUF9Wf01ZDh04jxkbGFQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VsCkUz18BWEFedzSYWs8gaAWwdDTJFdArFELGtrlfrAsb6uSluEnbEheS6CkWBbA3ENtMT1R9BqY0/ftXFqSmpfzUJmR5j8aNhfotq4DxN/wiF61AWwW1l9GLSSwNGvrkMMiKuXBmLysDkhZJq4LDjhgkqItIeKbi2S55bz052c= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=E97HYxiacT9wb0EKbhUx3Inyij3pennxTObYaSEVHcp87uLIUPj7wjhdt2Fxts7QBgiCyAgyOJ66Gkvr1OzPB+rPb9xUKhZrvN3dwgrehJpehOGcv/znXOGSSC8sllocg5Vtf+cW/Z+WtCgdi7i3jfJhIZClxJzX5+XZ68YFVmE=; Message-ID: <759054.33717.qm@web83904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uSUWtWsVM1loRgxz94MLs2j5j08MPyaZyuIgmgks7SytLyc GPjQuiMqEP1gcQ4J56I5cLoNSkV9ViD.Ti43vnIJXJmVoRw4qsSxu3fw9ciu 9cA9F22xkWO6vfeXN0S2TuruuVELqjCRVB_I.WbJ4.wqUoWqwCtymBeOFC9a FA.TXs3zCFIbpRDcuOIlkMkASmIhgrucnnT_cO5Wmt6n8ofH.z94LjFVMEdf vwXQg6Mgz0aQFMBnF_KoClK4sv65Frx4x2kiq1hSR1t2gXy6oUqrmbS5lohZ 3antmiC0hJKPG5ZYbunz5CCkK7DGPArGF1l2NZw1oNDL.CYFz.OMw85_iMe2 2h2nwWDQSCg4lQQCN Received: from [208.114.47.187] by web83904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:30:59 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/570 YahooMailWebService/0.8.111.304355 References: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:30:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: This has got to stop To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1344845589-1308666659=:33717" --0-1344845589-1308666659=:33717 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian,=0A=A0=A0 You made no mention=A0of the type of=A0sensors and coils yo= u are =0Ausing.........Are you =0A=0Ausing the 13BREW two sensor (pickups) = and trigger-wheel system with stock coils=0Aor "GM" coils??...............= =0A=A0=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ En= gine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS= "_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Mark = Steitle =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, June 21, 2011 7:10:36 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary= ] Re: This has got to stop=0A=0ABrian,=A0 =0A=0AYour symptoms are exactly w= hat I fought with for over a year with my 20B. =A0The =0Aproblem turned out= to be the CAS. =A0I had thought it would be a big improvement =0Ato go wit= h the Renesis type CAS, so I had Tracy convert my EC-2 to work with the =0A= crank mount CAS, and I added a trigger wheel and bracket to the front of my= =0Aengine. =A0Depending on the sensor gap and the phase of the moon, it wo= uld run =0Agreat up to the upper 5000's, then it would start mis-firing bad= ly. =A0No amount =0Aof tuning would correct the problem. =A0This may not be= your exact scenario, but I =0Ahope it will help you determine if it is ign= ition or fuel. =A0My guess is =0Aignition. =A0=0A=0AOh, to fix my problem, = I had Tracy convert my EC-2 back to work with the old =0A"distributor" styl= e CAS, reinstalled the old CAS, and that corrected the =0Aprobmel. =A0It no= w runs great up to > 70000 rpm.=A0=0A=0AMark=A0=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Jun 20, = 2011 at 11:19 PM, wrote:=0A=0A=0A>=0A>I'm going to ground = my airplane until I get to the bottom of this. I can tune it =0A>on the gro= und and it will run just fine all the way from idle to full throttle. =0A>I= get about 5300 rpm at full throttle at 29 in hg. MP. I have 12 hours in th= e =0A>air so far but can't get past this issue. Other than this, the plane = is an =0A>absolute joy. =0A>=0A>=0A>When=A0 I get off the ground, when I go= through around 5400 RPM, I start to get =0A>stumbling and engine roughness= . At this RPM I am about 18 inches MP. Just below =0A>this point, I am maki= ng about 50% power and the engine will run smoothly. =0A>=0A>=0A>I went to = another airport and had a lot of roughness on takeoff, but I am used =0A>to= it and so continued on my way to my home airport. When I got back I found = out =0A>that someone at the other airport wanted to report me to FSDO becau= se he thought =0A>my engine was going to blow up, but he didn't get my tail= number. =0A>=0A>=0A>So, I thought I had it sorted out before I flew today,= but it's back to the =0A>drawing board. I've tried both leaning and enrich= ing the mixture at all throttle =0A>settings, but to no avail. At and above= 5400 rpm I start getting all sorts of =0A>roughness so I think that it has= to be an ignition issue. My injector wiring is =0A>separated from my coil = wiring, but could I be getting inductance between the =0A>different coil wi= ring?=0A>=0A>I have a 93 13 BREW normally aspirated, 2.85 RWS redrive, EM2,= EC2, 88x 74 CAtto =0A>Prop. This is getting to be really frustrating. It's= got to be something simple =0A>that I'm overlooking. I don't know anyone w= ith an ocilliscope, and have never =0A>used one. =0A>=0A>=0A>Brian Trubee= =0A>=0A --0-1344845589-1308666659=:33717 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Brian,
=0A
   You made no mentio= n of the type of sensors and coils you are using.........Are you =
=0A
using the 13BREW two sensor (pickups) and trigger-wheel syste= m with stock coils
=0A
or "GM" coils??...............
=0A  
=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA= JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTA= RY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

= =0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
= =0A
=0AFrom: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft &l= t;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
S= ent: Tue, June 21, 2011 7:10:36 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop

Brian,  =0A

=0A
Your symptoms are exactly wha= t I fought with for over a year with my 20B.  The problem turned out t= o be the CAS.  I had thought it would be a big improvement to go with = the Renesis type CAS, so I had Tracy convert my EC-2 to work with the crank= mount CAS, and I added a trigger wheel and bracket to the front of my engi= ne.  Depending on the sensor gap and the phase of the moon, it would r= un great up to the upper 5000's, then it would start mis-firing badly. &nbs= p;No amount of tuning would correct the problem.  This may not be your= exact scenario, but I hope it will help you determine if it is ignition or= fuel.  My guess is ignition.  
=0A

=0A
Oh= , to fix my problem, I had Tracy convert my EC-2 back to work with the old = "distributor" style CAS, reinstalled the old CAS, and that corrected the pr= obmel.  It now runs great up to > 70000 rpm. 
=0A
=0A
Mark 
=0A


=0A
= On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:19 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
=0A

=0A
=0A<= DIV>I'm going to ground my airplane until I get to the bottom of this. I ca= n tune it on the ground and it will run just fine all the way from idle to = full throttle. I get about 5300 rpm at full throttle at 29 in hg. MP. I hav= e 12 hours in the air so far but can't get past this issue. Other than this= , the plane is an absolute joy.
=0A
 
=0A
When = ; I get off the ground, when I go through around 5400 RPM, I start to get s= tumbling and engine roughness. At this RPM I am about 18 inches MP. Just be= low this point, I am making about 50% power and the engine will run smoothl= y.
=0A
 
=0A
I went to another airport and had a lo= t of roughness on takeoff, but I am used to it and so continued on my way t= o my home airport. When I got back I found out that someone at the other ai= rport wanted to report me to FSDO because he thought my engine was going to= blow up, but he didn't get my tail number.
=0A
 
=0ASo, I thought I had it sorted out before I flew today, but it's back to = the drawing board. I've tried both leaning and enriching the mixture at all= throttle settings, but to no avail. At and above 5400 rpm I start getting = all sorts of roughness so I think that it has to be an ignition issue. My i= njector wiring is separated from my coil wiring, but could I be getting ind= uctance between the different coil wiring?
=0A
 
=0AI have a 93 13 BREW normally aspirated, 2.85 RWS redrive, EM2, EC2, 88x 74= CAtto Prop. This is getting to be really frustrating. It's got to be somet= hing simple that I'm overlooking. I don't know anyone with an ocilliscope, = and have never used one.
=0A
 
=0A
Brian Trubee

=0A
<= BR>
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