X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4892615 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 09:21:24 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.105; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-145-79.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.79]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20110306142047H0500b5e1je>; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 14:20:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.79] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 09:20:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1F3A256873264718A0023B561357BD1B@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01CBDBDF.C9161A50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcvcA/mN8WuiPvsmRl2Oh8vSi/BjLwABUeBw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CBDBDF.C9161A50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tracy, Last upgrade was 7 Nov 07. for both the EC-2 and EM-2. I am not certain what was done or when the CAS terminator would have been done??? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Hi Bill, When you just need a quick check of differential on EGTs, glance at the EGT bar graphs on the main page of EM2. If the bars are close to the same height you know they're OK. Each of the segments on the bars represents about 20 degrees F. One or 2 segments is not a problem, if there is a rotor differential problem bad enough to cause a miss due to mixture or ignition, it will be well over 100 degrees in difference, i.e. it will be obvious. Remember which bar was the low one and that will tell you which rotor to start looking at. One other thought: Since you are running the Renesis, did you have the EC2 upgraded with the Renesis CAS terminator? Don't know if you were following the thread when that was being discussed a couple of years ago. The EC2 was originally designed for the 2nd gen CAS and the Renesis was different enough to need a change. High speed miss or hard starting were the symptoms. Tracy On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Mark, The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on it. I have run about 40 gallons of gas thru it. I will have to check the coils for darkening. Also same for plug wires. I am using the stock Renesis plugs. I might try cleaning them. On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would not start till I sand blasted the plugs. After that it started normally. This problem just happened on the second takeoff. The engine was running smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff. It started to miss and pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300. after I got in the air, I dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed out again and was ok the rest of the flight. Now it is missing on the ground above the staging point. I have mine set at 16 inches. I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging point and also on up in the higher rpms. The only difference is that the engine starts to miss.erratically. I didn't notice the EGT as Tracy suggested. I need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check that today. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Bill, How do the coils look (underneath)? Are there dark areas in the potting material where they have gotten hot? There is a history of coil failures in the RX-8's after about 30k miles. How many hours on the plugs/wires? How do they look? Mark On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Mark, I have the stock Renesis coils. Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 6:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Bill, Which coils are you running? I chased an intermittent miss which occurred in the 6000 -7000 range. I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the miss was gone. Mark S. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: I have developed a miss above the staging point. The fuel pressure seems ok, the mixture also seems ok. I am at a loss. To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the staging point and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can identify which is the cause. Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the primaries. I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large canister filter. There seems a possibility that I introduced some contamination that clogged an injector. Other wise it seems it must be spark related. This just happened one flight ago. The engine was running fine, till that last takeoff. It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm. After take off, I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that number and it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight. Today while taxiing around, I noticed that the miss was back. Opinions welcomed. Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CBDBDF.C9161A50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tracy,

 

Last upgrade was 7 Nov 07. for both = the EC-2 and EM-2.  I am not certain what was done or when the CAS = terminator would have been done???

 

Bill

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Sunday, March 06, = 2011 8:39 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Hi Bill,  =
When you just need a quick check of differential on EGTs, glance at the = EGT bar graphs on the main page of EM2.  If the bars are close to the same = height you know they're OK.  Each of the segments on the bars represents = about 20 degrees F.   One or 2 segments is not a problem, if there is a = rotor differential problem bad enough to cause a miss due to mixture or = ignition, it will be well over 100 degrees in difference, i.e.  it will be obvious.   Remember which bar was the low one and that will = tell you which rotor to start looking at.

One other thought:   Since you are running the Renesis,  = did you have the EC2 upgraded with the Renesis CAS terminator?  Don't know = if you were following the thread when that was being discussed a couple of = years ago.  The EC2 was originally designed for the 2nd gen CAS and the = Renesis was different enough to need a change.  High speed miss or hard = starting were the symptoms.

Tracy

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:

Mark,

The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on = it.  I have run about 40 gallons of gas thru it.  I will have to check the = coils for darkening.  Also same for plug wires.  I am using the = stock Renesis plugs.  I might try cleaning = them.

 

On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would = not start till I sand blasted the plugs.  After that it started = normally.

 

This problem just happened on the second takeoff.  The = engine was running smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff.  = It started to miss and pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300.  after I = got in the air, I dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the = engine smoothed out again and was ok the rest of the flight.  Now it is = missing on the ground above the staging point.  I have mine set at 16 = inches.

I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging point and also on up in the higher rpms.  The only = difference is that the engine starts to miss.erratically.  I didn’t notice = the EGT as Tracy = suggested.  I need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check = that today.

 

Bill

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, = 2011 9:50 PM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Bill, 

 

How = do the coils look (underneath)?  Are there dark areas in the potting material = where they have gotten hot?  There is a history of coil failures in the = RX-8's after about 30k miles.    

 

How = many hours on the plugs/wires?  How do they look?

 

Mark =  

On = Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

Mark,

 

I have the stock Renesis coils.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, = 2011 6:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Bill, 

 

Which = coils are you running?  I chased an intermittent miss which occurred in the = 6000 -7000 range.  I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the miss was = gone.  

 

Mark = S.

On = Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

I have developed a miss above the staging point.  The = fuel pressure seems ok, the mixture also seems ok.  I am at a = loss.

 

To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the = staging point and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can = identify which is the cause.  Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it = is not the primaries.

 

I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large = canister filter.  There seems a possibility  that I introduced some contamination that clogged an injector.  Other wise it seems it = must be spark related.  This just happened one flight ago.  The engine = was running fine, till that last takeoff.  It was missing and would = only get about 6300 rpm.  After take off, I turned the prop back and slowed = the engine down to below that number and it smoothed out and ran fine the = res of the flight.  Today while taxiing around, I noticed that the miss = was back.

 

Opinions welcomed.

 

Bill B

 

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CBDBDF.C9161A50--