X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTPS id 4892591 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 08:39:51 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.180; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so3756126wyf.25 for ; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 05:39:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=+unoaDkU2bc3teSmv2w264Yd8Q58Z8IHuUWN9XTjpJM=; b=Ald9e/VZfLfwoltfCB8goLJH2X90qcpc+u+ALZL20c+olwB4O9SGIsp0deyNnAKOPT +SwE8IJkRX2zKdQ+rNt2/lL20REdi1SnPA6YvIb5PjjftjNYx26zhWCVEU2lcEw5oqTW B4vwjQiku9C8BWlE9JCLBUM9ih8JDl7F9TUAg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=sFYuo8wV1289BfEE78aqblaEyHQuoZ4TH6vZ82s/vtZWHQWoXmU/raAokhslKUEGwM bo9QMIZY8Zh9mUZa2Dxsn5aZB4f4ccFLV1spX7zNCH5L3wFs6L+buObsPaore11E7d46 4B9Z1eQTtJ8BeV/Liq7UtiNV20N1/Dozia/iE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.217.2.73 with SMTP id o51mr1487182wes.66.1299418753095; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 05:39:13 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.230.215 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 05:39:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 08:39:13 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: djMNilG5-5wLNVrEOJSO_syt14c Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3020786231567e049dd0819d --20cf3020786231567e049dd0819d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill, When you just need a quick check of differential on EGTs, glance at the EGT bar graphs on the main page of EM2. If the bars are close to the same height you know they're OK. Each of the segments on the bars represents about 20 degrees F. One or 2 segments is not a problem, if there is a rotor differential problem bad enough to cause a miss due to mixture or ignition, it will be well over 100 degrees in difference, i.e. it will be obvious. Remember which bar was the low one and that will tell you which rotor to start looking at. One other thought: Since you are running the Renesis, did you have the EC2 upgraded with the Renesis CAS terminator? Don't know if you were following the thread when that was being discussed a couple of years ago. The EC2 was originally designed for the 2nd gen CAS and the Renesis was different enough to need a change. High speed miss or hard starting were the symptoms. Tracy On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Bill Bradburry wr= ote: > Mark, > > The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on it. I have run abou= t > 40 gallons of gas thru it. I will have to check the coils for darkening. > Also same for plug wires. I am using the stock Renesis plugs. I might t= ry > cleaning them. > > > > On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would not start till = I > sand blasted the plugs. After that it started normally. > > > > This problem just happened on the second takeoff. The engine was running > smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff. It started to miss = and > pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300. after I got in the air, I > dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed = out > again and was ok the rest of the flight. Now it is missing on the ground > above the staging point. I have mine set at 16 inches. > > I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging poin= t > and also on up in the higher rpms. The only difference is that the engin= e > starts to miss.erratically. I didn=92t notice the EGT as Tracy suggested= . I > need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check > that today. > > > > Bill > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:50 PM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. > > > > Bill, > > > > How do the coils look (underneath)? Are there dark areas in the potting > material where they have gotten hot? There is a history of coil failures= in > the RX-8's after about 30k miles. > > > > How many hours on the plugs/wires? How do they look? > > > > Mark > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > Mark, > > > > I have the stock Renesis coils. > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Saturday, March 05, 2011 6:19 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. > > > > Bill, > > > > Which coils are you running? I chased an intermittent miss which occurre= d > in the 6000 -7000 range. I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the mis= s > was gone. > > > > Mark S. > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > I have developed a miss above the staging point. The fuel pressure seems > ok, the mixture also seems ok. I am at a loss. > > > > To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the staging point > and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can identify whic= h > is the cause. Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the > primaries. > > > > I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large canister filter. > There seems a possibility that I introduced some contamination that clog= ged > an injector. Other wise it seems it must be spark related. This just > happened one flight ago. The engine was running fine, till that last > takeoff. It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm. After take o= ff, > I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that number an= d > it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight. Today while taxiing > around, I noticed that the miss was back. > > > > Opinions welcomed. > > > > Bill B > > > > > > > > > --20cf3020786231567e049dd0819d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill,=A0
When you just need a quick check of differential on EGTs, g= lance at the EGT bar graphs on the main page of EM2.=A0 If the bars are clo= se to the same height you know they're OK.=A0 Each of the segments on t= he bars represents about 20 degrees F. =A0 One or 2 segments is not a probl= em, if there is a rotor differential problem bad enough to cause a miss due= to mixture or ignition, it will be well over 100 degrees in difference, i.= e.=A0 it will be obvious.=A0=A0 Remember which bar was the low one and that= will tell you which rotor to start looking at.

One other thought:=A0=A0 Since you are running the Renesis,=A0 did you = have the EC2 upgraded with the Renesis CAS terminator?=A0 Don't know if= you were following the thread when that was being discussed a couple of ye= ars ago.=A0 The EC2 was originally designed for the 2nd gen CAS and the Ren= esis was different enough to need a change.=A0 High speed miss or hard star= ting were the symptoms.

Tracy

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:14 AM,= Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,

The car the en= gine came from had about 1400 miles on it.=A0 I have run about 40 gallons of gas thru it.=A0 I will have to check the coils for darkening.=A0 Also same for plug wires.=A0 I am using the stock Renesis plugs.=A0 I might try cleaning them.<= /p>

=A0

On a previous = occasion, I flooded the engine and it would not start till I sand blasted the plugs.=A0 After that it started normally.

=A0

This problem j= ust happened on the second takeoff.=A0 The engine was running smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff.=A0 It started to miss and pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300.=A0 after I got in the air, I dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed out again and was ok the rest of th= e flight.=A0 Now it is missing on the ground above the staging point.=A0 I ha= ve mine set at 16 inches.

I watched the = mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging point and also on up in the higher rpms.=A0 The o= nly difference is that the engine starts to miss.erratically.=A0 I didn=92t not= ice the EGT as Tracy suggested.=A0 I need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check that today.

=A0

Bill

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, = 2011 9:50 PM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: M= iss above staging point.

=A0

Bill,=A0

=A0

How do the coils look (underneath)? =A0Are there dar= k areas in the potting material where they have gotten hot? =A0There is a history of coil failures in the RX-8's after about 30k miles. =A0 =A0

=A0

How many hours on the plugs/wires? =A0How do they lo= ok?

=A0

Mark =A0

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry <<= a href=3D"mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net" target=3D"_blank">bbradburry@bel= lsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,

=A0

I have the sto= ck Renesis coils.

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle<= br> Sent: Saturday, March 05, = 2011 6:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: M= iss above staging point.

=A0

Bill,=A0

=A0

Which coils are you running? =A0I chased an intermittent miss which occurred in the 6000 -7000 range. =A0I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the miss = was gone. =A0

=A0

Mark S.=

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I have develop= ed a miss above the staging point.=A0 The fuel pressure seems ok, the mixture also seems ok.=A0 I am at a loss.

=A0

To try and tro= ubleshoot, I am considering getting above the staging point and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can identify which is the cause.=A0 Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the primaries.

=A0

I recently cha= nged my fuel filters and installed a large canister filter.=A0 There seems a possibility =A0that I introduced some contamination that clogged an injector.=A0 Other wise it seems it must be spark related.=A0 This just happened one flight ago.=A0 The engine was running fine, till tha= t last takeoff.=A0 It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm.=A0 After take off, I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below = that number and it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight.=A0 Today while taxiing around, I noticed that the miss was back.

=A0

Opinions welco= med.

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


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