X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTPS id 4873475 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 07:32:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=dmlobner@gmail.com Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so893155ewy.25 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 04:31:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/MyFazoGvC6wjSXF+ZeDoTHYifv1CNcDEDK718mmOKw=; b=OQVqq2ub6CvREPgmzl1/xLAQt/Rjj820y+V2hhvPL74qrdTcelRboahdh0lI0pDiff XAHQ/63NyQtmY142SSvFI4FZ3AcCmvFy/Lsa7ChTspBtHbFCxjBl6vSY0JSc+OhbxK4n C1dh2rMfUXJR+AbHUGn4Uvn9qCgYgxvpEODcs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=c4YBRofAo07i3uOvEiINpfGzsSgeEBSv1ybgbNmwngQ7mwMchRHslwUTWGz9IST5AW 4nne3/KAzwqWcdc7j8s6x+wtntDkpfrcjTFqeCXuFsp44xXOlZ8Ozyjfoksi/KPHJWnB OAXZNNtNL2hPbhD5A8JhxD0387TXsakKuFv30= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.105.74 with SMTP id s10mr2171926ebo.24.1297945900982; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 04:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.33.135 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 04:31:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 06:31:40 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: - Day dreaming... From: Dustin Lobner To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be1525da242049c79949e --0015174be1525da242049c79949e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I'm expecting 10 years to build, hoping for 7. I understand that part. I also understand fabricating the intake, I looked at pictures of the stock mazda engine and my face basically went o.O The compression ratio I might have lowered just to prevent detonation. I'm going to have the engine tweaked by a professional engine builder of good reputation before I use it, this may be one of the things done to it. You say below you have two speeds, takeoff and cruise. I guess my thought is to use the aux valve and the ECU's ability to turn it on and off to allo= w tweaking of cruise and takeoff moreso than you otherwise could. One nice thing about this is that I have free dyno time to sort this all out. Dustin On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Hi Dustin, > > Dreaming is good. There are a lot more dreamers on this site than there > are fliers! You are going to fit in quite well. > > > > The reason for all those valves and plumbing on the Renesis is that it is > normally aspirated. They don=92t make a turbo for it. It has 10:1 > compression so you need to take that into consideration when you boost it= . > You could blow it up. Also with the plane, unlike the car, you basically > have two speeds, take off and cruise. You don=92t need to try and maximi= ze > the intake for all those different rpms because you will only be running = at, > mostly, two of them. The intake that comes from the factory will not fit > under the cowl on a plane. This means you will have to build your own. = If > you start trying to do all the plumbing and valve flipping that you are > talking about, you will certainly need a bunch of friends with lots and l= ots > of EEEEs behind their name. > > > > You would be surprised at the journey that this becomes. I started worki= ng > on my plane in 2002 and it just passed its Airworthiness Inspection. I > still haven=92t flown it because there are still issues that need to be > tweeked. Maybe next week! > > > > Good Luck! > > > > Bill B N249B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Dustin Lobner > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:39 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] - Day dreaming... > > > > Hi everyone, > > I posted this today on the HomeBuiltAirplanes forum. Going to C/P it her= e > for comments/questions/flaming. > > Background, I'm planning on building up a Renesis with a Turbonetics turb= o, > putting it into a Mustang II. I'm planning on using MegaSquirt 3 (or > whatever is available when I get there) ECUs. These ECUs control things > like waste gate management, any servos you want, in addition to the the E= FI > and ignition. > > So... > > The Renesis has 6 intake ports (I think a 4 port model was made for awhil= e, > but I'm going to buy a crate engine so that's out). I found a white paper > somewhere, written by the designers of the Renesis, talking about each po= rt. > There's the primary, which is always open. Secondary comes on 3,500-4K > RPMs-ish. Aux turns on at 7.5K RPMs. The ECU I'll be using has outputs fo= r > controlling things like butterfly valves for different intake runners. > > My understanding is that most people simply run on the pri/secondary only > and plug the aux, or run with them all going. Seeing as how I'll have an = ECU > to do some work if I want, what do people think about valving either the = aux > or the secondary and aux? The ECU is flexible regarding mixtures and > whatnot, so I'm thinking I could tune the "cruise" setting for 6K RPMs, a= ux > closed, and then tune the "max power" setting for 7k RPMs with the butter= fly > opening at 6800 or something. Wastegate (should I go with a turbo) can va= ry > by RPM too, so I could have it set for "normalize" 6800 and below, and > "boost the heck out of it" above that. > > *Shrugs* I know, it's an airplane, KISS. I have a few years before I'll b= e > to the point of being able to wrench on the engine, so I'm dreaming about= it > now and hashing things out now so that when the engine gets here I can ju= st > build. From discussions on the Mazda list, different length runners DO > matter quite a bit, so it's not like this is a completely worthless thoug= ht. > > Thinking about it, valving the secondary seems a bit stupid, because if > that valve breaks you don't have a good portion of your power, whereas if > you lose the aux it's not the end of the world. > > > > I guess what I'm going for is, I remember some conversation here about > different length runners for different tuning. This could let you have t= he > best of both worlds...thoughts? And mind you, I have a two engineer > aviation minded friends, one with a ME/EE double and one with an AeroE, s= o > I'm not completely without help designing this. > > Dustin > > --0015174be1525da242049c79949e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill,

I'm expecting 10 years to build, hoping for 7.=A0 I unders= tand that part.=A0 I also understand fabricating the intake, I looked at pi= ctures of the stock mazda engine and my face basically went o.O

The = compression ratio I might have lowered just to prevent detonation.=A0 I'= ;m going to have the engine tweaked by a professional engine builder of goo= d reputation before I use it, this may be one of the things done to it.

You say below you have two speeds, takeoff and cruise.=A0 I guess my th= ought is to use the aux valve and the ECU's ability to turn it on and o= ff to allow tweaking of cruise and takeoff moreso than you otherwise could.= =A0 One nice thing about this is that I have free dyno time to sort this all out.

Dustin


On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Bill Bradb= urry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hi Dustin,

Dreaming is go= od.=A0 There are a lot more dreamers on this site than there are fliers!=A0 You are going to fit i= n quite well.

=A0

The reason for= all those valves and plumbing on the Renesis is that it is=A0 normally aspirated.=A0 They don=92= t make a turbo for it.=A0 It has 10:1 compression so you need to take that into consideration when you boost it.=A0 You could blow it up.=A0 Also with the plane, unlike the car, you basically have two speeds, take off and cruise.=A0 You don=92t need to try and maximize the intake for all those different rpms because you will only be running at, mostly, two of them.=A0= The intake that comes from the factory will not fit under the cowl on a plane.=A0 This means you will have to build your own.=A0 If you start trying to do all the plumbing and valve flipping that you are talking about= , you will certainly need a bunch of friends with lots and lots of EEEEs behi= nd their name.

=A0

You would be s= urprised at the journey that this becomes.=A0 I started working on my plane in 2002 and it just passed its Airworthiness Inspection.=A0 I still haven=92t flown it because there are still issues that need to be tweeked.=A0 Maybe next week!=

=A0

Good Luck!

=A0

Bill B=A0 N249= B

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dustin Lobner
Sent: Wednesday, February = 16, 2011 10:39 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] - Day dreaming...

=A0

Hi everyone,

I posted this today on the HomeBuiltAirplanes forum.=A0 Going to C/P it her= e for comments/questions/flaming.

Background, I'm planning on building up a Renesis with a Turbonetics tu= rbo, putting it into a Mustang II.=A0 I'm planning on using MegaSquirt 3 (or whatever is available when I get there) ECUs.=A0 These ECUs control things like waste gate management, any servos you want, in addition to the the EFI= and ignition.=A0

So... <copy-paste from the forum>

The Renesis has 6 intake ports (I think a 4 port model was made for awhile,= but I'm going to buy a crate engine so that's out). I found a white pap= er somewhere, written by the designers of the Renesis, talking about each port= . There's the primary, which is always open. Secondary comes on 3,500-4K = RPMs-ish. Aux turns on at 7.5K RPMs. The ECU I'll be using has outputs for contro= lling things like butterfly valves for different intake runners.

My understanding is that most people simply run on the pri/secondary only a= nd plug the aux, or run with them all going. Seeing as how I'll have an EC= U to do some work if I want, what do people think about valving either the aux or t= he secondary and aux? The ECU is flexible regarding mixtures and whatnot, so I= 'm thinking I could tune the "cruise" setting for 6K RPMs, aux close= d, and then tune the "max power" setting for 7k RPMs with the butter= fly opening at 6800 or something. Wastegate (should I go with a turbo) can vary= by RPM too, so I could have it set for "normalize" 6800 and below, a= nd "boost the heck out of it" above that.

*Shrugs* I know, it's an airplane, KISS. I have a few years before I= 9;ll be to the point of being able to wrench on the engine, so I'm dreaming about = it now and hashing things out now so that when the engine gets here I can just bui= ld. From discussions on the Mazda list, different length runners DO matter quit= e a bit, so it's not like this is a completely worthless thought.

Thinking about it, valving the secondary seems a bit stupid, because if tha= t valve breaks you don't have a good portion of your power, whereas if yo= u lose the aux it's not the end of the world.

<end paste>

I guess what I'm going for is, I remember some conversation here about different length runners for different tuning.=A0 This could let you have the best of both worlds...thoughts?=A0 And mind you, I have a two engineer aviation minded friends, one with a ME/EE double and one with an AeroE, so = I'm not completely without help designing this.

Dustin


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