X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.129.170.194] (HELO VIRCOM1.fcdata.private) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4871147 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:23:10 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::697f:d6aa:b87:78d8]) by FCD-MAIL05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::809d:a06e:5913:452e%15]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:18:22 -0600 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Ceramic Apex Seals....curiosity RE ceramin/carbon/steelst Thread-Topic: Ceramic Apex Seals....curiosity RE ceramin/carbon/steelst Thread-Index: AQHLzSqQQbjgOyaXZUeJmBii59WvrQ== Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:22:35 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3035729B75@FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [166.139.76.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3035729B75FCDMAIL06FCDATA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3035729B75FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since I am likely about to replace my apex seals, at least in my rear rotor= , I was surfing around the net looking at options regarding apex seals, O-r= ings, gaskets etc. The reality is, I will probably use Tracy's seals, howe= ver, while on Mazdatrix looking at stuff, I once again noticed the ceramic = apex seals available there and their $300.00 price for EACH one, thus costi= ng $1800.00 for a set. YIKES. I am pretty certain we have all looked at th= ese and wondered about them. Personally I pretty much dismissed them as no= t enough of a balance for what ya get. Then I realized that I am not reall= y certain what that $1800 buys. Also, I noticed the steel apex seals and the carbon. What, in a nutshell, = are the differences? Are we paying more for negligible improvement or just= a difference? While I understand we want solid reliability for our aviati= on use I want to make those choices based on knowledge and not speculation.= Or, the "it is more expensive so it must be better" way of thinking...and = I gotta spend more to get the best in my airplane.... Dollars does not alw= ays equal reliable, best, safe etc...otherwise we would likely not be choos= ing to try to use the rotary. On a related note, since Apex seals for rotaries is a very limited market, = how many companies can actually make seals. I wonder since Mazdatrix sells= each seal for $300.00. However, Red Tail Racing sells a complete set with= springs for only $500.00. http://www.redtail-racing.com/ Red Tail states they have successfully used the seals in bridge ported appl= ications in race applications. They say the seals for made for the Mazda i= n industrial commercial use...I believe for natural gas applications. No, I do not intend to jump on the cheap ceramic seal wagon, however, with = such a limited market it makes me wonder who make the seals Mazdatrix sells= and the ones sold by Red Tail. Like some alternators that are used in bot= h cars and planes coming off the same assemble line, but with a significan= t price difference, I am curious about various pedigrees. I mentioned this a while back on the other list, but, IIRC, it got lost in = the theory. I am wanting to expand my knowledge base so ya'll's opinions are sought. Thanks guys and gals. Chris Barber Houston --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3035729B75FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Since I am likely about to replace my apex seals, at least in my rear ro= tor, I was surfing around the net looking at options regarding apex se= als, O-rings, gaskets etc. The reality is, I will probably use Tracy's seals, however, while on Mazdatrix lo= oking at stuff, I once again noticed the ceramic apex seals available the= re and their $300.00 price for EACH one, thus costing $1800.00 for a set. Y= IKES. I am pretty certain we have all looked at these and wondered ab= out them. Personally I pretty much dismissed them as not enough of a balance for what ya get. = Then I realized that I am not really certain what that $1800 buys.

Also, I noticed the steel apex seals and the carbon. What, in a nu= tshell, are the differences? Are we paying more for negligible improv= ement or just a difference? While I understand we want solid reliabil= ity for our aviation use I want to make those choices based on knowledge and not speculation. Or, the "it is mo= re expensive so it must be better" way of thinking...and I gotta<= a> spend more to get the best in my airplane.... Dollars d= oes not always equal reliable, best, safe etc...otherwise we would likely not be choosing to try to use the rotary.

On a related note, since Apex seals for rotaries is a very l= imited market, how many companies can actually make seals. I wonder s= ince Mazdatrix sells each seal for $300.00.&= nbsp; However, Red Tail Racing sells a complete set with springs for only $500.00. = http://www.redtail-racing.com/

Red Tail states they have successfully used the seals in bridge ported a= pplications in race applications. They say the seals for = made for the Mazda in industrial commercial use...I believe for= natural gas applications.

No, I do not intend to jump on the cheap ceramic seal wagon, however, wi= th such a limited market it makes me wonder who make the seals Mazdatr= ix sells and the ones sold by Red Tail. Like some alter= nators that are used in both cars and planes coming off the same assemble line, but with a significant price diff= erence, I am curious about various pedigrees.

I mentioned this a while back on the other list, but, IIRC = , it got lost in the theory.

I am wanting to expand my knowledge base so ya'll's &n= bsp;opinions are sought.

Thanks guys and gals.

Chris Barber

Houston

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