X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4870587 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:25:36 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.144; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p1F4OZDK010247 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:24:35 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.fc5.c259dfb (55727) for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.149]) by cia-md03.mx.aol.com (v129.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD032-5c654d59fff9224; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:24:30 -0500 Received: from Webmail-m109 (webmail-m109.sim.aol.com [64.12.232.214]) by smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (v129.8) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB023-5c654d59fff9224; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:24:25 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:24:25 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.110.91.118 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD9ADF5CADE28E_19A0_CF51A_Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33222-STANDARD Received: from 74.110.91.118 by Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com (64.12.232.214) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:24:25 -0500 Message-Id: <8CD9ADF5C9F9A66-19A0-565E2@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD9ADF5CADE28E_19A0_CF51A_Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" So at this point I should go back and set mode three to a very countercloc= kwise setting, hit the program button, and then proceed through mode 2 an= d then 1 or 9. Yeah? Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 6:02 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy Hi Brian, Looks to me that you started tuning the MAP Table before you did the ro= ugh tuning of Mode 3 and 2. Starting with the MAP Table is the most com= mon mistake builders make with the EC2/3. This should be the LAST step,= not the first.=20 Note that everything in the table is a negative value and starts and ends= with it almost at minimum value (-127). The goal should be to minimize= the number of table values that have to be adjusted away from the median= (default) value of Zero. Tracy On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:14 PM, wrote: For general information purposes, if anyone is interested, here is how my= MAP table is set at the moment during GROUND running. Note that I am not= completely done tuning, but am getting there. Please pipe up anyone if yo= u have any pointers.=20 =20 I have a 2.85/ PSRU, and a 74 Dia x 88 inch pitch prop.The engine will run= down to just under 14 inches of MP at MAP address 7 where it will quit.At= that address, the injector value is -124. I can run the low MP table up= to MAP address 29, where it shows 23.1 inch MP and an injector value of= -110. It then switches to the high RPM table at MAP address of 73, inject= or value of -115. Staging is at MAP address 84, MP of 19.1 injector value= of -46. I can run the engine up to MAP address of 105, which shows an inj= ector value of -123, MP of 28.6 on a 30.05 In. of mercury day. That's an= RPM of around 5200, the EM2 shows a HP rating of 160 at that setting. =20 These are from settings that I took off the edit page when I was done tuni= ng last.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 1:13 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy I tried to address this issue with Mode 6, the adjustable MP threshold for= the lower map table range. The idea is to have the lowest in-flight MP= select the 0 - 31 range and ground condition select the upper range (32= - 64). Being successful at this also requires the rpm threshold of the= low range be chosen correctly and everyone's seems different so it may no= t be right for your installation since it is not programmable. Controlla= ble pitch props also complicate this issue, even on carbureted engines. = It's the same situation that causes P51's to fart, pop and belch fire du= ring this phase of flight. Everybody thinks that's cool tho.... I've never had the problem myself since I always plan my descents to avoid= windmilling the engine at low throttle (that's not good for the RD-1x dri= ve). It's also a waste of the potential energy in altitude. But, if the EGT's are the only problem during this condition, I'd ignore= it because you can't damage anything in the engine at this low power sett= ing. Tracy=20 On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: Relating to this subject heading; here is an issue that has me wondering. =20 I tune the EC2 MAP table at the low end =E2=80=93 maybe up to 14-15=E2=80= =9D MAP =E2=80=93 while on the ground; and then tune above that in flight.= And frequently when on rapid descent with throttle pulled well back; the= engine alarm light starts blinking. It=E2=80=99s because EGT is exceedin= g the limit (I think 1750). Seems strange. I figure must be really rich,= and fuel burning at the exhaust port making high EGT. =20 So one day I put it in auto tune mode and pull back the throttle on descen= t, and I note that the mixture in bins 30-31-32 going way to the rich side= ; I think it was bin 32 that was full rich. No longer a high EGT alarm.= Hm-m-m; must be it was really lean there, but why would that make high EG= T. =20 Then I land; and as I pull off the runway the engine is rough and stumblin= g. Lean out the mixture and it works fine. So I do some auto tuning at low= rpm and MAP, and find it at those low 30=E2=80=99s bins making it much le= aner and get things running smoothly.=20 =20 So what=E2=80=99s happening here; and is there a fix. Clearly those bins= need to be tuned for low rpm and taxi operation. Why the high EGT on thr= ottle back descent? How do I not get the engine alarm on descent, and stil= l get to run smoothly on the ground? =20 Al =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Tracy Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy =20 Yes, if you decrease the Mode 3 value you will have to increase the map= table values across the whole range to compensate. It's not automatic th= ough, you will have to do it manually. Auto tune would eventually get it= adjusted too but that assumes you run the engine at all possible settings= for long enough for that to happen. That's why it pays to do Mode 3 firs= t, Mode 2 second and Mode 1 (or 9) 3rd. Don't ask why I numbered the Mode= s in that order, I don't have a good answer other than Mode 1 was the one= that would be used most often. Now Mode 9 is the most often used but Mod= e 9 didn't exist in the early days of the EC1/2/3. =20 Last thing to do is auto tune for the fine tuning. =20 Tracy On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:09 AM, wrote: I didn't run out of injector setting range, but am very close. My edit pag= e bar graph is pretty much ony one or two lines high for most of the Map= table. I'm also down to values around -120 for most of the addresses. I= thought about setting mode 3 a bit lower.Iif so, and I then go back and= re-tune it to the aproximate fuel/air settings I have now, does it change= the bar graph and the values at each address? =20 Say, for instance, MAP address 80 shows a setting of -118, and only one li= ne on the bar graph. If I lower the injector setting in mode 3 and re-tune= to the same mixture setting, will the setting be higher than -118 and wil= l the bar graph be higher? It would be nicer to be closer to the middle va= lues, rather then the bottom (-127) or top (+127), so I have more adjustab= ility in the future if I were to need it for some reason. Even though it= runs nicely now, i'm still up around 8 "o"s on the horizontal mixture gra= ph.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 6:38 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ... turns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 settings. I went= to auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all the way up and= down the map table. Glad you got it running better Brian. When you run into the situation yo= u mentioned above, the first thing you should do is adjust the Injector Fl= ow Rate (Mode 3). That will adjust the mixture at ALL throttle settings= and is a lot easier than resetting the entire MAP Table. But as long as= you don't run out of range on the MAP Table adjustments, what you did wil= l work OK. Tracy On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:06 PM, wrote: And on to brighter news. I went out today, did some tuning on my plane, tu= rns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 settings. I went to= auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all the way up and dow= n the map table. Had to do a little fine tuning, and especially at the sta= ging point, had to richen it up there, at bin # 84. I would have taken it= up for a flight, but had other appointments. It was a glorious day for fl= ying, but a test will have to wait for the next nice day here in Seattle.P= revious flights went OK until just after takeoff, then the engine would su= rge and backfire, getting the attention of all witnesses within a mile or= two. I can imagine that they were all mentally formulating what they were= going to say to the FAA investigation team. I was starting to question my= decision to go rotary, but now have a renewed sense of confidence in the= installation. =20 Temperature today was around 50 degrees, even with extended running on the= ground at full throttle, temps maxed out at 145 and148 for oil and coola= nt respectively. Throttling back to 16 inches of MP got the temps running= around 125. Going to wait until summer to close up my cooling inlets a li= ttle. =20 Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: bktrub@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Feb 10, 2011 4:50 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ... Hmm, send money overseas for their oil so that we can increase our trade= deficit and fund all sorts of socially constipated cultures who might be= hostile to our own, or keep the money here and employ americans? That's= a real head scratcher there. I've got some of the mineral rights in the= Bakken, due to some forward thinking ranch owning ancestors, so you can= imagine what my feelings on this are.=20 =20 New Drilling Method Opens Vast U.S. Oil Fields Published February 10, 2011 | Associated Press A new drilling technique is opening up vast fields of previously out-of-re= ach oil in the western United States, helping reverse a two-decade decline= in domestic production of crude. Companies are investing billions of dollars to get at oil deposits scatter= ed across North Dakota, Colorado, Texas and California. By 2015, oil execu= tives and analysts say, the new fields could yield as much as 2 million ba= rrels of oil a day -- more than the entire Gulf of Mexico produces now. This new drilling is expected to raise U.S. production by at least 20 perc= ent over the next five years. And within 10 years, it could help reduce oi= l imports by more than half, advancing a goal that has long eluded policym= akers. "That's a significant contribution to energy security," says Ed Morse, hea= d of commodities research at Credit Suisse. Oil engineers are applying what critics say is an environmentally question= able method developed in recent years to tap natural gas trapped in underg= round shale. They drill down and horizontally into the rock, then pump wat= er, sand and chemicals into the hole to crack the shale and allow gas to= flow up. Because oil molecules are sticky and larger than gas molecules, engineers= thought the process wouldn't work to squeeze oil out fast enough to make= it economical. But drillers learned how to increase the number of cracks= in the rock and use different chemicals to free up oil at low cost. "We'v= e completely transformed the natural gas industry, and I wouldn't be surpr= ised if we transform the oil business in the next few years too," says Aub= rey McClendon, chief executive of Chesapeake Energy, which is using the te= chnique. Petroleum engineers first used the method in 2007 to unlock oil from a 25,= 000-square-mile formation under North Dakota and Montana known as the Bakk= en. Production there rose 50 percent in just the past year, to 458,000 bar= rels a day, according to Bentek Energy, an energy analysis firm. It was first thought that the Bakken was unique. Then drillers tapped oil= in a shale formation under South Texas called the Eagle Ford. Drilling pe= rmits in the region grew 11-fold last year. Now newer fields are showing promise, including the Niobrara, which stretc= hes under Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas; the Leonard, in New Mexi= co and Texas; and the Monterey, in California. "It's only been fleshed out over the last 12 months just how consequential= this can be," says Mark Papa, chief executive of EOG Resources, the compa= ny that first used horizontal drilling to tap shale oil. "And there will= be several additional plays that will come about in the next 12 to 18 mon= ths. We're not done yet." Environmentalists fear that fluids or wastewater from the process, called= hydraulic fracturing, could pollute drinking water supplies. The Environm= ental Protection Agency is now studying its safety in shale drilling. The= agency studied use of the process in shallower drilling operations in 200= 4 and found that it was safe. In the Bakken formation, production is rising so fast there is no space in= pipelines to bring the oil to market. Instead, it is being transported to= refineries by rail and truck. Drilling companies have had to erect camps= to house workers. Unemployment in North Dakota has fallen to the lowest level in the nation,= 3.8 percent -- less than half the national rate of 9 percent. The influx= of mostly male workers to the region has left local men lamenting a lack= of women. Convenience stores are struggling to keep shelves stocked with= food. The Bakken and the Eagle Ford are each expected to ultimately produce 4 bi= llion barrels of oil. That would make them the fifth- and sixth-biggest oi= l fields ever discovered in the United States. The top four are Prudhoe Ba= y in Alaska, Spraberry Trend in West Texas, the East Texas Oilfield and th= e Kuparuk Field in Alaska. The fields are attracting billions of dollars of investment from foreign= oil giants like Royal Dutch Shell, BP and Norway's Statoil, and also from= the smaller U.S. drillers who developed the new techniques like Chesapeak= e, EOG Resources and Occidental Petroleum. Last month China's state-owned oil company CNOOC agreed to pay Chesapeake= $570 million for a one-third stake in a drilling project in the Niobrara.= This followed a $1 billion deal in October between the two companies on= a project in the Eagle Ford. With oil prices high and natural-gas prices low, profit margins from produ= cing oil from shale are much higher than for gas. Also, drilling for shale= oil is not dependent on high oil prices. Papa says this oil is cheaper to= tap than the oil in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico or in Canada's= oil sands. The country's shale oil resources aren't nearly as big as the country's sh= ale gas resources. Drillers have unlocked decades' worth of natural gas,= an abundance of supply that may keep prices low for years. U.S. shale oil= on the other hand will only supply one to two percent of world consumptio= n by 2015, not nearly enough to affect prices. Still, a surge in production last year from the Bakken helped U.S. oil pro= duction grow for the second year in a row, after 23 years of decline. This= during a year when drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the nation's biggest= oil-producing region, was halted after the BP oil spill. U.S. oil production climbed steadily through most of the last century and= reached a peak of 9.6 million barrels per day in 1970. The decline since= was slowed by new production in Alaska in the 1980s and in the Gulf of Me= xico more recently. But by 2008, production had fallen to 5 million barrel= s per day. Within five years, analysts and executives predict, the newly unlocked fie= lds are expected to produce 1 million to 2 million barrels of oil per day,= enough to boost U.S. production 20 percent to 40 percent. The U.S. Energy= Information Administration estimates production will grow a more modest= 500,000 barrels per day. By 2020, oil imports could be slashed by as much as 60 percent, according= to Credit Suisse's Morse, who is counting on Gulf oil production to rise= and on U.S. gasoline demand to fall. At today's oil prices of roughly $90 per barrel, slashing imports that muc= h would save the U.S. $175 billion a year. Last year, when oil averaged $7= 8 per barrel, the U.S. sent $260 billion overseas for crude, accounting fo= r nearly half the country's $500 billion trade deficit. "We have redefined how to look for oil and gas," says Rehan Rashid, an ana= lyst at FBR Capital Markets. "The implications are major for the nation." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/10/new-drilling-method-opens-= vast-oil-fields/#ixzz1DZa3M891 =20 -----Original Message----- From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ... All this was said 40 years ago. """We will be out of oil in twenty years= """ Coffee is bad for you""" now coffee is good for you & we have more oi= l than anyone ever dreamed available + being used many times more efficien= tly, the """ones in the know ...do not know!!!! But they can predict the= weather 50 years from now. David R. Cook RV6A = Rotary -4 deg. F. Lansing MI. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Staten" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:15:02 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ... Well, I can agree with Lynn for one thing.. Carter was 2nd worst president= ever.... (After Bush 43)... :P =20 Ethanol in fuel was never about efficiency. NEVER. It was about replacing= a very toxic oxygenate (MTBE) with something cleaner burning and less tox= ic. Lead in aviation fuel will go the same way.. its inevitable. One plant= makes the lead that goes in it. They go tits up and the 25 percent of the= aviation fleet that burns 75 percent of the leaded avgas will be knee-cap= ped brutally.=20 =20 Biofuel is not exclusively ethanol. Its also HYDROCARBONS synthesized or= processed from living matter, as opposed to fossil fuels naturally develo= ped from long dead matter. Its bacteria in a digester/reactor with a feeds= tock and a product stream. Ethanol is in cars to reduce smog.. nothing mor= e. Biofuels in aircraft do not necessarily have to include ethanol (but it= could).=20 =20 Ifwe dont start doing more than paying lip service to preserving our envir= onment, we will have the worlds best military protecting the worlds larges= t ecological wasteland.=20 =20 As long as we are overly dependent on fossil fuels, we will be subject to= the foreign policy of others. Biofuels, Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Hydroelectr= ic... all things that need to be developed further. And if we wait until= its too late to transition, our worlds best military will be reduced to= throwing rocks and writing nasty letters, because our turbine powered pla= nes and tanks dont run on good intentions.=20 Personally... if we have to burn oil... Why burn mine (ours) when I can bu= rn yours (theirs).. =20 I'm not hardly a hairy, stoned, tree hugging hippie, but I do recognize th= eir point.. =20 Dave =20 =20 On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:24 PM, wrote: Lynn for President,,,,,,,,,,( might be in central FL this winter, will con= tact, stop & say hi ) David R. Cook RV6A Rotary. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lehanover@aol.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:39:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ... In a message dated 2/9/2011 12:02:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jwhaley@d= atacast.com writes: Interesting enough, though the scary part is there=E2=80=99s no mention in= the text of AVGAS or GAS =E2=80=A6 only the subject uses the term AVGAS. The text body uses the terms =E2=80=9Cunleaded, sustainable general aviati= on fuel, credible renewable, unleaded fuel, 'green' fuel and the exclusive= use of biofuel in air show performances." I fear this is another attempt= to push ETHANOL or heavy ethanol-blended fuel. Jeff=20 If you take away government subsidies from the green fuel tree hugger play= . Gasohol would be gone in a month. It takes almost a gallon of fuel to pr= oduce a gallon of gasohol. You have to boil it. It is made just like Jack= Danials. =20 It is the biggest victory of form over function ever imagined by mankind. =20 The farmers love it because they save money as the kernel quality is lower= , and the water content is higher, and they get government money. The gove= rnment pays the oil companies to use it. The oil companies get to displace= actual gasoline with the crap for even more profits, and the user pays al= l of them extra in taxes so you can get 30% less mileage and performance.= But wait...........there's more.........Plus the better corn not now bein= g grown for feed stock plastics and human consumption has boosted the pric= e of that corn. So the farmer profits again. The beef man looses his a__,= and you pay even higher beef, pork and poultry prices in addition the tax= es that support this house of cards. When beef prices get high enough, dai= ry herds are thinned at higher rates (younger) and milk production drops.= Milk prices go up.=20 =20 What to do?=20 =20 Send the entire energy department home. Established in 75 to eliminate our= dependence on offshore oil.=20 =20 Eliminate all farm subsidies. Phase out oil imports to zero over the next= 7 years. Drill here. Drill now.=20 =20 We can be cut off at the knees and turned into a 3rd world country by the= towel heads who hate us. If you don't remember the oil crisis of 74 under= the (Now) second worst president in this country's history, Jimmy Carter,= Look it up. Long lines on odd license number days, or even license number= days for 10 gallons of fuel.=20 =20 The worlds strongest military reduced to writing nasty letters?????=20 =20 If the tree huggers want to live in mud huts, smoke dope, and use gasohol= let them pay for it with their money not mine. =20 Look up Bakken oil formation. =20 Lynn E. Hanover=20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8CD9ADF5CADE28E_19A0_CF51A_Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
So at this point I should= go back and set mode three to a very counterclockwise setting, hit the pr= ogram button,  and then proceed through mode 2 and then 1 or 9.= Yeah?
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 6:02 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy

Hi Brian,
   Looks to me that you started tuning the MAP Table before you= did the rough tuning of Mode 3 and 2.    Starting with the= MAP Table is the most common mistake builders make with the EC2/3. &= nbsp; This should be the LAST step, not the first.

 Note that everything in the table is a negative value and starts and= ends with it almost at minimum value (-127).   The goal should= be to minimize the number of table values that have to be adjusted away= from the median (default) value of Zero.

Tracy




On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:14 PM, = <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:=
For general information= purposes, if anyone is interested, here is how my MAP table is set at the= moment during GROUND running. Note that I am not completely done tuning,= but am getting there. Please pipe up anyone if you have any pointers.
 
I have a 2.85/ PSRU, and a 74 Dia x 88 inch pitch prop.The engine wil= l run down to just under 14 inches of MP at MAP address 7 where it will qu= it.At that address, the injector value is -124. I can run the low MP table= up to MAP address 29, where it shows 23.1 inch MP and an injector value= of -110. It then switches to the high RPM table at MAP address of 73, inj= ector value of -115. Staging is at MAP address 84, MP of 19.1 injecto= r value of -46. I can run the engine up to MAP address of 105, which shows= an injector value of -123, MP of 28.6 on a 30.05 In. of mercury day. That= 's an RPM of around 5200, the EM2 shows a HP rating of 160 at that setting= .
 
These are from settings that I took off the edit page when I was done= tuning last.
 
Brian Trubee
 


 


-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryav= iation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 1:13 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy

I tried to address this issue with Mode 6, the adjustable MP threshol= d for the lower map table range.  The idea is to have the lowest in-f= light MP select the 0 - 31 range and ground condition select the upper ran= ge (32 - 64).   Being successful at this also requires the rpm thresh= old of the low range be chosen correctly and everyone's seems different so= it may not be right for your installation since it is not programmable.&n= bsp;  Controllable pitch props also complicate this issue, even on ca= rbureted engines.   It's the same situation that causes P51's to= fart, pop and belch fire during this phase of flight.   Everybo= dy thinks that's cool tho....

I've never had the problem myself since I always plan my descents to avoid= windmilling the engine at low throttle (that's not good for the RD-1x dri= ve).   It's also a waste of the potential energy in altitude.
But, if the EGT's are the only problem during this condition, I'd ignore= it because you can't damage anything in the engine at this low power sett= ing.

Tracy


On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:
Relating to thi= s subject heading; here is an issue that has me wondering.
 
I tune the EC2= MAP table at the low end =E2=80=93 maybe up to= 14-15=E2=80=9D <= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">MAP =E2=80=93 while on the groun= d; and then tune above that in flight.  And frequently when on rapid= descent with throttle pulled well back; the engine alarm light starts bli= nking.  It=E2=80=99s because EGT is exceeding the limit (I think 1750= ). Seems strange. I figure must be really rich, and fuel burning at the ex= haust port making high EGT.
 
So one day I pu= t it in auto tune mode and pull back the throttle on descent, and I note= that the mixture in bins 30-31-32 going way to the rich side; I think it= was bin 32 that was full rich.  No longer a high EGT alarm. Hm-m-m;= must be it was really lean there, but why would that make high EGT.
 
Then I land; an= d as I pull off the runway the engine is rough and stumbling. Lean out the= mixture and it works fine. So I do some auto tuning at low rpm and MAP, and find it at those low 30=E2=80=99s bins maki= ng it much leaner and get things running smoothly.
 
So what=E2=80= =99s happening here; and is there a fix.  Clearly those bins need to= be tuned for low rpm and taxi operation.  Why the high EGT on thrott= le back descent? How do I not get the engine alarm on descent, and still= get to run smoothly on the ground?
 
Al
 
 
 
-----Original= Message-----
From: Rotary motors in air= craft [mailto:flyrotary@lan= caironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Friday, February 11,= 2011 8:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= EC2/ Tracy
 
 Yes, if you decrease the Mode 3 value you will have= to increase the map table values across the whole range to compensate.&nb= sp; It's not automatic though, you will have to do it manually.  Auto= tune would eventually get it adjusted too but that assumes you run the en= gine at all possible settings for long enough for that to happen.  Th= at's why it pays to do Mode 3 first, Mode 2 second and Mode 1 (or 9) 3rd.&= nbsp; Don't ask why I numbered the Modes in that order, I don't have a goo= d answer other than Mode 1 was the one that would be used most often. = ; Now Mode 9 is the most often used but Mode 9 didn't exist in the early= days of the EC1/2/3. 

Last thing to do is auto tune for the fine tuning. 

Tracy

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at= 10:09 AM, <bktrub@aol.com> wr= ote:
I didn't run out of injector setting range, but am very close.=  My edit page bar graph is pretty much ony one or two = lines high for most of the Map table. I'm also down to values around -120= for most of the addresses. I thought about setting mode 3 a bit lowe= r.Iif so, and I then go back and re-tune it to the aproximate fuel/air set= tings I have now, does it change the bar graph and the values at each addr= ess?
 
Say, for instance, MAP address 80 shows a setting of -118= , and only one line on the bar graph. If I lower the injector setting in= mode 3 and re-tune to the same mixture setting, will the setting be highe= r than -118 and will the bar graph be higher? It would be nicer to be clos= er to the middle values, rather then the bottom (-127) or top (+127), so= I have more adjustability in the future if I were to need it for some rea= son. Even though it runs nicely now, i'm still up around 8 "o"s on the hor= izontal mixture graph.
 
Brian Trubee
 
-----Original Messa= ge-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryav= iation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 6:38 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ...

Glad you got it running better Brian.   When you run into the si= tuation you mentioned above, the first thing you should do is adjust the= Injector Flow Rate (Mode 3).  That will adjust the mixture at ALL th= rottle settings and is a lot easier than resetting the entire MAP Table.&n= bsp; But as long as you don't run out of range on the MAP Table adjustment= s, what you did will work OK.

Tracy

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:06 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
And on to brighter news. I went out today, did some tuning on= my plane, turns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 setting= s. I went to auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all the wa= y up and down the map table. Had to do a little fine tuning, and especiall= y at the staging point, had to richen it up there, at bin # 84. I would ha= ve taken it up for a flight, but had other appointments. It was a glorious= day for flying, but a test will have to wait for the next nice day= here in Seattle.Previous flights went OK until just after takeoff, then= the engine would surge and backfire, getting the attention of all witness= es within a mile or two. I can imagine that they were all mentally formula= ting what they were going to say to the FAA investigation team. I was star= ting to question my decision to go rotary, but now have a renewed sense of= confidence in the installation.
 
Temperature today was around 50 degrees, even with extended ru= nning on the ground at full throttle, temps maxed out at  145 and148= for oil and coolant respectively. Throttling back to 16 inches of MP got= the temps running around 125. Going to wait until summer to close up my= cooling inlets a little.
 
Brian Trubee=
 
-----Original Message-----
From: bktrub@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb 10,= 2011 4:50 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ...

Hmm,= send money overseas for their oil so that we can increase our trade defic= it and fund all sorts of socially constipated cultures who might= be hostile to our own, or keep the money here and employ americans? That'= s a real head scratcher there. I've got some of the mineral rights in the= Bakken, due to some forward thinking ranch owning ancestors, so you can= imagine what my feelings on this are.

&nbs= p;

New= Drilling Method Opens Vast U.S. Oil Fields

Published February 10, 2011
| Associated Press
A new drilling technique is opening up vast fields of previou= sly out-of-reach oil in the western United States, helping reverse a two-d= ecade decline in domestic production of crude.
Companies are investing= billions of dollars to get at oil deposits scattered across North Dakota,= Colorado, Texas and California. By 2015, oil executives and analysts say,= the new fields could yield as much as 2 million barrels of oil a day --= more than the entire Gulf of Mexico produces now.
This new drilling is expected to raise U.S. production by at= least 20 percent over the next five years. And within 10 years, it could= help reduce oil imports by more tha= n half, advancing a goal that has long eluded policymakers.<= /div>
"That's a significant contribution to energy security," says= Ed Morse, head of commodities research at Credit Suisse.
Oil engineers are applying what critics say is an environment= ally questionable method developed in recent years to tap natural gas trap= ped in underground shale. They drill down and horizontally into the rock,= then pump water, sand and chemicals= into the hole to crack the shale and allow gas to flow up.<= /div>
Because oil molecules are sticky and larger than gas molecule= s, engineers thought the process wouldn't work to squeeze oil out fast eno= ugh to make it economical. But drillers learned how to increase the number= of cracks in the rock and use different chemicals to free up oil at low= cost. "We've completely transformed the natural gas industry, and I would= n't be surprised if we transform the oil business in the next few years too," says Aubrey McClendon, chief exe= cutive of Chesapeake Energy, which is using the technique.
Petroleum engineers first used the method in 2007 to unlock= oil from a 25,000-square-mile formation under North Dakota and Montana kn= own as the Bakken. Production there rose 50 percent in just the past year,= to 458,000 barrels a day, according to Bentek Energy, an energy analysis= firm.
It was first thought that the Bakken was unique. Then driller= s tapped oil in a shale formation under South Texas called the Eagle Ford.= Drilling permits in the region grew 11-fold last year.
Now newer fields are showing promise, including the Niobrara,= which stretches under Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas; the Leonard= , in New Mexico and Texas; and the Monterey, in California.<= /div>
"It's only been fleshed out over the last 12 months just how= consequential this can be," says Mark Papa, chief executive of EOG Resour= ces, the company that first used horizontal drilling to tap shale oil. "An= d there will be several additional plays that will come about in the next= 12 to 18 months. We're not done yet."
Environmentalists fear that fluids or wastewater from the pro= cess, called hydraulic fracturing, could pollute drinking water supplies.= The Environmental Protection Agency is now studying its safety in shale drilling. The agency studied use of= the process in shallower drilling operations in 2004 and found that it wa= s safe.
In the Bakken formation, production is rising so fast there= is no space in pipelines to bring the oil to market. Instead, it is being= transported to refineries by rail and truck. Drilling companies have had= to erect camps to house workers.
Unemployment in North Dakota has fallen to the lowest level= in the nation, 3.8 percent -- less than half the national rate of 9 perce= nt. The influx of mostly male workers to the region has left local men lam= enting a lack of women. Convenience stores are struggling to keep shelves= stocked with food.
The Bakken and the Eagle Ford are each expected to ultimately= produce 4 billion barrels of oil. That would make them the fifth- and six= th-biggest oil fields ever discovered in the United States. The top four= are Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, Spraberry Trend in West Texas, the East Texas= Oilfield and the Kuparuk Field in Alaska.
The fields are attracting billions of dollars of investment= from foreign oil giants like Royal Dutch Shell, BP and Norway's Statoil,= and also from the smaller U.S. drillers who developed the new techniques= like Chesapeake, EOG Resources and Occidental Petroleum.
Last month China's state-owned oil company CNOOC agreed to pa= y Chesapeake $570 million for a one-third stake in a drilling project in= the Niobrara. This followed a $1 billion deal in October between the two= companies on a project in the Eagle Ford.
With oil prices high and natural-gas prices low, profit margi= ns from producing oil from shale are much higher than for gas. Also, drill= ing for shale oil is not dependent on high oil prices. Papa says this oil= is cheaper to tap than the oil in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico= or in Canada's oil sands.
The country's shale oil resources aren't nearly as big as the= country's shale gas resources. Drillers have unlocked decades' worth of= natural gas, an abundance of supply that may keep prices low for years.= U.S. shale oil on the other hand will only supply one to two percent of= world consumption by 2015, not nearly enough to affect prices.
Still, a surge in production last year from the Bakken helped= U.S. oil production grow for the second year in a row, after 23 years of= decline. This during a year when drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the nati= on's biggest oil-producing region, was halted after the BP oil spill.
U.S. oil production climbed steadily through most of the last= century and reached a peak of 9.6 million barrels per day in 1970. The de= cline since was slowed by new production in Alaska in the 1980s and in the= Gulf of Mexico more recently. But by 2008, production had fallen to 5 mil= lion barrels per day.
Within five years, analysts and executives predict, the newly= unlocked fields are expected to produce 1 million to 2 million barrels of= oil per day, enough to boost U.S. production 20 percent to 40 percent. Th= e U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates production will grow a= more modest 500,000 barrels per day.
By 2020, oil imports could be slashed by as much as 60 percen= t, according to Credit Suisse's Morse, who is counting on Gulf oil product= ion to rise and on U.S. gasoline demand to fall.
At today's oil prices of roughly $90 per barrel, slashing imp= orts that much would save the U.S. $175 billion a year. Last year, when oi= l averaged $78 per barrel, the U.S. sent $260 billion overseas for crude,= accounting for nearly half the country's $500 billion trade deficit.
"We have redefined how to look for oil and gas," says Rehan= Rashid, an analyst at FBR Capital Markets. "The implications are major fo= r the nation."
 
-----Original Messa= ge-----
From: hoursaway1@comcast.net=
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ...
All this was said&n= bsp;40 years ago.   """We will be out of oil in twenty years"""&= nbsp; Coffee is bad for you""" now coffee is good for you & we have mo= re oil than anyone ever dreamed available + being used many times more eff= iciently,  the """ones in the know ...do not know!!!!  But= they can predict the weather 50 years from now.    &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;       David R. Cook   RV6A = ; Rotary  -4 deg. F. Lansing MI.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Staten" <david.s= taten@gmail.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:15:02 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ...
Well, I can agree with Lynn for one thing.. Carter was 2nd wor= st president ever.... (After Bush 43)...  :P
 
Ethanol in fuel was never about efficiency. NEVER. It was abou= t replacing a very toxic oxygenate (MTBE) with something cleaner burning= and less toxic. Lead in aviation fuel will go the same way.. its inevitab= le. One plant makes the lead that goes in it. They go tits up and the= 25 percent of the aviation fleet that burns 75 percent of the leaded avga= s will be knee-capped brutally.
 
Biofuel is not exclusively ethanol. Its also HYDROCARBONS synt= hesized or processed from living matter, as opposed to fossil fuels natura= lly developed from long dead matter. Its bacteria in a digester/reactor wi= th a feedstock and a product stream. Ethanol is in cars to reduce smog..= nothing more. Biofuels in aircraft do not necessarily have to include eth= anol (but it could).
 
Ifwe dont start doing more than paying lip service to preservi= ng our environment, we will have the worlds best military protecting the= worlds largest ecological wasteland.
 
As long as we are overly dependent on fossil fuels, we wi= ll be subject to the foreign policy of others. Biofuels, Nuclear, Solar,= Wind, Hydroelectric... all things that need to be developed further. And= if we wait until its too late to transition, our worlds best military wil= l be reduced to throwing rocks and writing nasty letters, because our turb= ine powered planes and tanks dont run on good intentions.

Personally... if we have to burn oil... Why burn mine (ours) when I= can burn yours (theirs)..
 
I'm not hardly a hairy, stoned, tree hugging hippie, but I do= recognize their point..
 
Dave
 
 
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:24 PM, <hoursaway1@comcast.net> wrote:
Lynn for President,= ,,,,,,,,,( might be in central FL this winter, will contact, stop & sa= y hi )   David R. Cook  RV6A   Rotary.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lehanover@aol.com
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:39:57 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing= ... back ...
In a message dated 2/9/2011 12:02:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Tim= e, jwhaley@datacast.com writes= :
Interesting enough, though the scary part is= there=E2=80=99s no mention in the text of AVGAS or GAS =E2=80=A6 only the= subject uses the term AVGAS.
The text body uses the terms =E2=80=9C<= /FONT>unleaded, sustainable general= aviation fuel, credible renewabl= e, unleaded fuel, 'green' fuel and the exclusive use of biofuel in air sho= w performances= ."  I fear this is another attempt to push ETHANOL or heavy ethano= l-blended fuel.
Jeff
If you take away government subsidies from the green fuel tree= hugger play. Gasohol would be gone in a month. It takes almost a gallon= of fuel to produce a gallon of gasohol. You have to boil it. It is made= just like Jack Danials.
 
It is the biggest victory of form over function ever imagined= by mankind.
 
The farmers love it because they save money as the kernel qual= ity is lower, and the water content is higher, and they get government mon= ey. The government pays the oil companies to use it. The oil companies get= to displace actual gasoline with the crap for even more profits, and the= user pays all of them extra in taxes so you can get 30% less mileage and= performance. But wait...........there's more.........Plus the better corn= not now being grown for feed stock plastics and human consumption has boo= sted the price of that corn. So the farmer profits again. The beef man loo= ses his a__, and you pay even higher beef, pork and poultry prices in addi= tion the taxes that support this house of cards. When beef prices get high= enough, dairy herds are thinned at higher rates (younger) and milk produc= tion drops. Milk prices go up.
 
What to do? 
 
Send the entire energy department home. Established in 75 to= eliminate our dependence on offshore oil.
 
Eliminate all farm subsidies. Phase out oil imports to zero ov= er the next 7 years. Drill here. Drill now.
 
We can be cut off at the knees and turned into a 3rd world cou= ntry by the towel heads who hate us. If you don't remember the oil crisis= of 74 under the (Now) second worst president in this country's history,= Jimmy Carter, Look it up. Long lines on odd license number days, or even= license number days for 10 gallons of fuel.
 
The worlds strongest military reduced to writing nasty letters= ????? 
 
If the tree huggers want to live in mud huts, smoke dope, and= use gasohol let them pay for it with their money not mine.<= /div>
 
Look up Bakken oil formation.
 
Lynn E. Hanover 
 
 
 


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