X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTPS id 4870527 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:02:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.180; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wyb28 with SMTP id 28so5542346wyb.25 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:02:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=RQjxIteD2HT2SX/Sz6v69P8u3KNvSzUmgO5SgG04oMg=; b=yE5SaFrT9t4uzEGLop9eQU0rwvx4cROyC/E1pim12TCOemc2AMI53SMDEcITFBGxOe DJ9CDKY/tY9mJf5nd2rUHQKAf1eeaRujCOB6KYV3kL2/8TnOYBT9r9vxtwlbBf6fB56T 4v3F32FqIhiJ12oTR1WZyPMmBNzsKCdVq5OPI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=wn1hSHvtP3R4EdOFNNHaVq0h7DYEVU/HANFJhXDpMO+DnVdqo4WFbv9JuFFRajrZj7 W6oQw8q2KtIVEuhTqC1sSifOcmQjSLrHrbniE7uXd2f3vfoMkbHwaES2I4MikfKFn1n1 uLNTUKLjmH8sSr/F2NDhwcb5YzDf8h5hB67I8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.55.145 with SMTP id k17mr261745wec.48.1297735322566; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:02:02 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.59.65 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:02:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:02:02 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: e3TU7PSBFkTGnRhAxBHYSP0ro50 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab4dfea02a7049c488c6b --0016e6dab4dfea02a7049c488c6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian, Looks to me that you started tuning the MAP Table before you did the rough tuning of Mode 3 and 2. Starting with the MAP Table is the most common mistake builders make with the EC2/3. This should be the LAST step= , not the first. Note that everything in the table is a negative value and starts and ends with it almost at minimum value (-127). The goal should be to minimize th= e number of table values that have to be adjusted away from the median (default) value of Zero. Tracy On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:14 PM, wrote: > For general information purposes, if anyone is interested, here is how m= y > MAP table is set at the moment during GROUND running. Note that I am not > completely done tuning, but am getting there. Please pipe up anyone if yo= u > have any pointers. > > I have a 2.85/ PSRU, and a 74 Dia x 88 inch pitch prop.The engine will ru= n > down to just under 14 inches of MP at MAP address 7 where it will quit.At > that address, the injector value is -124. I can run the low MP table up t= o > MAP address 29, where it shows 23.1 inch MP and an injector value of -110= . > It then switches to the high RPM table at MAP address of 73, injector val= ue > of -115. Staging is at MAP address 84, MP of 19.1 injector value of -46. = I > can run the engine up to MAP address of 105, which shows an injector valu= e > of -123, MP of 28.6 on a 30.05 In. of mercury day. That's an RPM of aroun= d > 5200, the EM2 shows a HP rating of 160 at that setting. > > These are from settings that I took off the edit page when I was done > tuning last. > > Brian Trubee > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tracy > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 1:13 pm > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy > > I tried to address this issue with Mode 6, the adjustable MP threshold fo= r > the lower map table range. The idea is to have the lowest in-flight MP > select the 0 - 31 range and ground condition select the upper range (32 - > 64). Being successful at this also requires the rpm threshold of the lo= w > range be chosen correctly and everyone's seems different so it may not be > right for your installation since it is not programmable. Controllable > pitch props also complicate this issue, even on carbureted engines. It'= s > the same situation that causes P51's to fart, pop and belch fire during t= his > phase of flight. Everybody thinks that's cool tho.... > > I've never had the problem myself since I always plan my descents to avoi= d > windmilling the engine at low throttle (that's not good for the RD-1x > drive). It's also a waste of the potential energy in altitude. > > But, if the EGT's are the only problem during this condition, I'd ignore = it > because you can't damage anything in the engine at this low power setting= . > > Tracy > > > On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: > >> Relating to this subject heading; here is an issue that has me >> wondering. >> >> I tune the EC2 MAP table at the low end =96 maybe up to 14-15=94 MAP =96= while >> on the ground; and then tune above that in flight. And frequently when = on >> rapid descent with throttle pulled well back; the engine alarm light sta= rts >> blinking. It=92s because EGT is exceeding the limit (I think 1750). See= ms >> strange. I figure must be really rich, and fuel burning at the exhaust p= ort >> making high EGT. >> >> So one day I put it in auto tune mode and pull back the throttle on >> descent, and I note that the mixture in bins 30-31-32 going way to the r= ich >> side; I think it was bin 32 that was full rich. No longer a high EGT al= arm. >> Hm-m-m; must be it was really lean there, but why would that make high E= GT. >> >> Then I land; and as I pull off the runway the engine is rough and >> stumbling. Lean out the mixture and it works fine. So I do some auto tun= ing >> at low rpm and MAP, and find it at those low 30=92s bins making it much >> leaner and get things running smoothly. >> >> So what=92s happening here; and is there a fix. Clearly those bins need= to >> be tuned for low rpm and taxi operation. Why the high EGT on throttle b= ack >> descent? How do I not get the engine alarm on descent, and still get to = run >> smoothly on the ground? >> >> Al >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Tracy >> *Sent:* Friday, February 11, 2011 8:04 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy >> >> Yes, if you decrease the Mode 3 value you will have to increase the map >> table values across the whole range to compensate. It's not automatic >> though, you will have to do it manually. Auto tune would eventually get= it >> adjusted too but that assumes you run the engine at all possible setting= s >> for long enough for that to happen. That's why it pays to do Mode 3 fir= st, >> Mode 2 second and Mode 1 (or 9) 3rd. Don't ask why I numbered the Modes= in >> that order, I don't have a good answer other than Mode 1 was the one tha= t >> would be used most often. Now Mode 9 is the most often used but Mode 9 >> didn't exist in the early days of the EC1/2/3. >> >> Last thing to do is auto tune for the fine tuning. >> >> Tracy >> >> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:09 AM, wrote: >> I didn't run out of injector setting range, but am very close. My edit >> page bar graph is pretty much ony one or two lines high for most of the = Map >> table. I'm also down to values around -120 for most of the addresses. >> I thought about setting mode 3 a bit lower.Iif so, and I then go back an= d >> re-tune it to the aproximate fuel/air settings I have now, does it chang= e >> the bar graph and the values at each address? >> >> Say, for instance, MAP address 80 shows a setting of -118, and only one >> line on the bar graph. If I lower the injector setting in mode 3 and re-= tune >> to the same mixture setting, will the setting be higher than -118 and wi= ll >> the bar graph be higher? It would be nicer to be closer to the middle >> values, rather then the bottom (-127) or top (+127), so I have more >> adjustability in the future if I were to need it for some reason. Even >> though it runs nicely now, i'm still up around 8 "o"s on the horizontal >> mixture graph. >> >> Brian Trubee >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tracy >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 6:38 am >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing >> ... back ... >> *turns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 settings. I >> went to auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all the way u= p >> and down the map table. >> * >> Glad you got it running better Brian. When you run into the situation >> you mentioned above, the first thing you should do is adjust the Injecto= r >> Flow Rate (Mode 3). That will adjust the mixture at ALL throttle settin= gs >> and is a lot easier than resetting the entire MAP Table. But as long as= you >> don't run out of range on the MAP Table adjustments, what you did will w= ork >> OK. >> >> Tracy >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:06 PM, wrote: >> And on to brighter news. I went out today, did some tuning on my plane, >> turns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 settings. I went= to >> auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all the way up and do= wn >> the map table. Had to do a little fine tuning, and especially at the sta= ging >> point, had to richen it up there, at bin # 84. I would have taken it up = for >> a flight, but had other appointments. It was a glorious day for flying, = but >> a test will have to wait for the next nice day here in Seattle.Previous >> flights went OK until just after takeoff, then the engine would surge an= d >> backfire, getting the attention of all witnesses within a mile or two. I= can >> imagine that they were all mentally formulating what they were going to = say >> to the FAA investigation team. I was starting to question my decision to= go >> rotary, but now have a renewed sense of confidence in the installation. >> >> Temperature today was around 50 degrees, even with extended running on >> the ground at full throttle, temps maxed out at 145 and148 for oil and >> coolant respectively. Throttling back to 16 inches of MP got the temps >> running around 125. Going to wait until summer to close up my cooling in= lets >> a little. >> >> Brian Trubee >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bktrub@aol.com >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Thu, Feb 10, 2011 4:50 pm >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing >> ... back ... >> *Hmm, send money overseas for their oil so that we can increase our >> trade deficit and fund all sorts of socially constipated cultures who mi= ght >> be hostile to our own, or keep the money here and employ americans? That= 's a >> real head scratcher there. I've got some of the mineral rights in the >> Bakken, due to some forward thinking ranch owning ancestors, so you can >> imagine what my feelings on this are. * * * *New Drilling Method Opens >> Vast U.S. Oil Fields* >> Published February 10, 2011 >> | Associated Press >> A new drilling technique is opening up vast fields of previously >> out-of-reach oil in the western United States, helping reverse a two-dec= ade >> decline in domestic production of crude. >> Companies are investingbillions of dollars to get at oil deposits= scattered across North Dakota, >> Colorado, Texas and California. By 2015, oil executives and analysts say= , >> the new fields could yield as much as 2 million barrels of oil a day -- = more >> than the entire Gulf of Mexico produces now. >> This new drilling is expected to raise U.S. production by at least 20 >> percent over the next five years. And within 10 years, it could help red= uce >> oil importsby more than half, advancing a goal that has long elude= d policymakers. >> "That's a significant contribution to energy security," says Ed Morse, >> head of commodities research at Credit Suisse. >> Oil engineers are applying what critics say is an environmentally >> questionable method developed in recent years to tap natural gas trapped= in >> underground shale. They drill down and horizontally into the rock, then >> pumpwater, sand and chemicals into the hole to crack the shale and= allow gas to >> flow up. >> Because oil molecules are sticky and larger than gas molecules, >> engineers thought the process wouldn't work to squeeze oil out fast enou= gh >> to make it economical. But drillers learned how to increase the number o= f >> cracks in the rock and use different chemicals to free up oil at low cos= t. >> "We've completely transformed the natural gas industry, and I wouldn't b= e >> surprised if we transform the oil businessin the next few years to= o," says Aubrey McClendon, chief executive of >> Chesapeake Energy, which is using the technique. >> Petroleum engineers first used the method in 2007 to unlock oil from a >> 25,000-square-mile formation under North Dakota and Montana known as the >> Bakken. Production there rose 50 percent in just the past year, to 458,0= 00 >> barrels a day, according to Bentek Energy, an energy analysis firm. >> It was first thought that the Bakken was unique. Then drillers tapped >> oil in a shale formation under South Texas called the Eagle Ford. Drilli= ng >> permits in the region grew 11-fold last year. >> Now newer fields are showing promise, including the Niobrara, which >> stretches under Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas; the Leonard, in = New >> Mexico and Texas; and the Monterey, in California. >> "It's only been fleshed out over the last 12 months just how >> consequential this can be," says Mark Papa, chief executive of EOG >> Resources, the company that first used horizontal drilling to tap shale = oil. >> "And there will be several additional plays that will come about in the = next >> 12 to 18 months. We're not done yet." >> Environmentalists fear that fluids or wastewater from the process, >> called hydraulic fracturing, could pollute drinking water supplies. The >> Environmental Protection Agency is now studying its safetyin shale= drilling. The agency studied use of the process in shallower >> drilling operations in 2004 and found that it was safe. >> In the Bakken formation, production is rising so fast there is no space >> in pipelines to bring the oil to market. Instead, it is being transporte= d to >> refineries by rail and truck. Drilling companies have had to erect camps= to >> house workers. >> Unemployment in North Dakota has fallen to the lowest level in the >> nation, 3.8 percent -- less than half the national rate of 9 percent. Th= e >> influx of mostly male workers to the region has left local men lamenting= a >> lack of women. Convenience stores are struggling to keep shelves stocked >> with food. >> The Bakken and the Eagle Ford are each expected to ultimately produce 4 >> billion barrels of oil. That would make them the fifth- and sixth-bigges= t >> oil fields ever discovered in the United States. The top four are Prudho= e >> Bay in Alaska, Spraberry Trend in West Texas, the East Texas Oilfield an= d >> the Kuparuk Field in Alaska. >> The fields are attracting billions of dollars of investment from foreig= n >> oil giants like Royal Dutch Shell, BP and Norway's Statoil, and also fro= m >> the smaller U.S. drillers who developed the new techniques like Chesapea= ke, >> EOG Resources and Occidental Petroleum. >> Last month China's state-owned oil company CNOOC agreed to pay >> Chesapeake $570 million for a one-third stake in a drilling project in t= he >> Niobrara. This followed a $1 billion deal in October between the two >> companies on a project in the Eagle Ford. >> With oil prices high and natural-gas prices low, profit margins from >> producing oil from shale are much higher than for gas. Also, drilling fo= r >> shale oil is not dependent on high oil prices. Papa says this oil is che= aper >> to tap than the oil in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico or in Canad= a's >> oil sands. >> The country's shale oil resources aren't nearly as big as the country's >> shale gas resources. Drillers have unlocked decades' worth of natural ga= s, >> an abundance of supply that may keep prices low for years. U.S. shale oi= l on >> the other hand will only supply one to two percent of world consumption = by >> 2015, not nearly enough to affect prices. >> Still, a surge in production last year from the Bakken helped U.S. oil >> production grow for the second year in a row, after 23 years of decline. >> This during a year when drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the nation's big= gest >> oil-producing region, was halted after the BP oil spill. >> U.S. oil production climbed steadily through most of the last century >> and reached a peak of 9.6 million barrels per day in 1970. The decline s= ince >> was slowed by new production in Alaska in the 1980s and in the Gulf of >> Mexico more recently. But by 2008, production had fallen to 5 million >> barrels per day. >> Within five years, analysts and executives predict, the newly unlocked >> fields are expected to produce 1 million to 2 million barrels of oil per >> day, enough to boost U.S. production 20 percent to 40 percent. The U.S. >> Energy Information Administration estimates production will grow a more >> modest 500,000 barrels per day. >> By 2020, oil imports could be slashed by as much as 60 percent, >> according to Credit Suisse's Morse, who is counting on Gulf oil producti= on >> to rise and on U.S. gasoline demand to fall. >> At today's oil prices of roughly $90 per barrel, slashing imports that >> much would save the U.S. $175 billion a year. Last year, when oil averag= ed >> $78 per barrel, the U.S. sent $260 billion overseas for crude, accountin= g >> for nearly half the country's $500 billion trade deficit. >> "We have redefined how to look for oil and gas," says Rehan Rashid, an >> analyst at FBR Capital Markets. "The implications are major for the nati= on." >> >> Read more: >> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/10/new-drilling-method-opens-vast-oil-= fields/#ixzz1DZa3M891 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hoursaway1@comcast.net >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Thu, Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing >> ... back ... >> All this was said 40 years ago. """We will be out of oil in twenty >> years""" Coffee is bad for you""" now coffee is good for you & we have = more >> oil than anyone ever dreamed available + being used many times more >> efficiently, the """ones in the know ...do not know!!!! But they can >> predict the weather 50 years from now. David R. >> Cook RV6A Rotary -4 deg. F. Lansing MI. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Staten" >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:15:02 AM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing >> ... back ... >> Well, I can agree with Lynn for one thing.. Carter was 2nd worst >> president ever.... (After Bush 43)... :P >> >> Ethanol in fuel was never about efficiency. NEVER. It was about >> replacing a very toxic oxygenate (MTBE) with something cleaner burning a= nd >> less toxic. Lead in aviation fuel will go the same way.. its inevitable.= One >> plant makes the lead that goes in it. They go tits up and the 25 percent= of >> the aviation fleet that burns 75 percent of the leaded avgas will be >> knee-capped brutally. >> >> Biofuel is not exclusively ethanol. Its also HYDROCARBONS synthesized o= r >> processed from living matter, as opposed to fossil fuels naturally devel= oped >> from long dead matter. Its bacteria in a digester/reactor with a feedsto= ck >> and a product stream. Ethanol is in cars to reduce smog.. nothing more. >> Biofuels in aircraft do not necessarily have to include ethanol (but it >> could). >> >> Ifwe dont start doing more than paying lip service to preserving our >> environment, we will have the worlds best military protecting the worlds >> largest ecological wasteland. >> >> As long as we are overly dependent on fossil fuels, we will be subject >> to the foreign policy of others. Biofuels, Nuclear, Solar, Wind, >> Hydroelectric... all things that need to be developed further. And if we >> wait until its too late to transition, our worlds best military will be >> reduced to throwing rocks and writing nasty letters, because our turbine >> powered planes and tanks dont run on good intentions. >> >> Personally... if we have to burn oil... Why burn mine (ours) when I can >> burn yours (theirs).. >> >> I'm not hardly a hairy, stoned, tree hugging hippie, but I do recognize >> their point.. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:24 PM, wrote: >> Lynn for President,,,,,,,,,,( might be in central FL this winter, will >> contact, stop & say hi ) David R. Cook RV6A Rotary. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lehanover@aol.com >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:39:57 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing >> ... back ... >> In a message dated 2/9/2011 12:02:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> jwhaley@datacast.com writes: >> >> Interesting enough, though the scary part is there=92s no mention in th= e >> text of AVGAS or GAS =85 only the subject uses the term AVGAS. >> The text body uses the terms =93unleaded, sustainable general aviation >> fuel, credible renewable, unleaded fuel, 'green' fuel and the exclusive >> use of biofuel in air show performances." I fear this is another attemp= t >> to push ETHANOL or heavy ethanol-blended fuel. >> Jeff >> >> If you take away government subsidies from the green fuel tree hugger >> play. Gasohol would be gone in a month. It takes almost a gallon of fuel= to >> produce a gallon of gasohol. You have to boil it. It is made just like J= ack >> Danials. >> >> It is the biggest victory of form over function ever imagined by >> mankind. >> >> The farmers love it because they save money as the kernel quality is >> lower, and the water content is higher, and they get government money. T= he >> government pays the oil companies to use it. The oil companies get to >> displace actual gasoline with the crap for even more profits, and the us= er >> pays all of them extra in taxes so you can get 30% less mileage and >> performance. But wait...........there's more.........Plus the better cor= n >> not now being grown for feed stock plastics and human consumption has >> boosted the price of that corn. So the farmer profits again. The beef ma= n >> looses his a__, and you pay even higher beef, pork and poultry prices in >> addition the taxes that support this house of cards. When beef prices ge= t >> high enough, dairy herds are thinned at higher rates (younger) and milk >> production drops. Milk prices go up. >> >> What to do? >> >> Send the entire energy department home. Established in 75 to eliminate >> our dependence on offshore oil. >> >> Eliminate all farm subsidies. Phase out oil imports to zero over the >> next 7 years. Drill here. Drill now. >> >> We can be cut off at the knees and turned into a 3rd world country by >> the towel heads who hate us. If you don't remember the oil crisis of 74 >> under the (Now) second worst president in this country's history, Jimmy >> Carter, Look it up. Long lines on odd license number days, or even licen= se >> number days for 10 gallons of fuel. >> >> The worlds strongest military reduced to writing nasty letters????? >> >> If the tree huggers want to live in mud huts, smoke dope, and use >> gasohol let them pay for it with their money not mine. >> >> Look up Bakken oil formation. >> >> Lynn E. Hanover >> >> >> >> > > --0016e6dab4dfea02a7049c488c6b Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian,
=A0=A0 Looks to me that you started tuning the MAP Table befor= e you did the rough tuning of Mode 3 and 2.=A0=A0=A0 Starting with the MAP = Table is the most common mistake builders make with the EC2/3.=A0=A0 This s= hould be the LAST step, not the first.

=A0Note that everything in the table is a negative value and starts and= ends with it almost at minimum value (-127).=A0=A0 The goal should be to m= inimize the number of table values that have to be adjusted away from the m= edian (default) value of Zero.

Tracy




On Mon, Feb 14, 201= 1 at 8:14 PM, <bktr= ub@aol.com> wrote:
For general information pu= rposes, if anyone is interested, here is how my MAP table is set at the mom= ent during GROUND running. Note that I am not completely done tuning, but a= m getting there. Please pipe up anyone if you have any pointers.
=A0
I have a 2.85/ PSRU, and a 74 Dia x 88 inch pitch prop.The engine will= run down to just under 14 inches of MP at MAP address 7 where it will quit= .At that address, the injector value is -124. I can run the low MP table up= to MAP address 29, where it shows 23.1 inch MP and an injector value of -1= 10. It then switches to the high RPM table at MAP address of 73, injector v= alue of -115. Staging=A0is at MAP address 84, MP of 19.1 injector value of = -46. I can run the engine up to MAP address of 105, which shows an injector= value of -123, MP of 28.6 on a 30.05 In. of mercury day. That's an RPM= of around 5200, the EM2 shows a HP rating of 160 at that setting.
=A0
These are from settings that I took off the edit page when I was done = tuning last.
=A0
Brian Trubee
=A0


=A0


-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
<= div>
Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 1:13 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2/ Tracy

I tried to address this issue with Mode 6, the adjustable MP threshold= for the lower map table range.=A0 The idea is to have the lowest in-flight= MP select the 0 - 31 range and ground condition select the upper range (32= - 64). =A0 Being successful at this also requires the rpm threshold of the= low range be chosen correctly and everyone's seems different so it may= not be right for your installation since it is not programmable.=A0=A0 Con= trollable pitch props also complicate this issue, even on carbureted engine= s.=A0=A0 It's the same situation that causes P51's to fart, pop and= belch fire during this phase of flight.=A0=A0 Everybody thinks that's = cool tho....

I've never had the problem myself since I always plan my descents to av= oid windmilling the engine at low throttle (that's not good for the RD-= 1x drive).=A0=A0 It's also a waste of the potential energy in altitude.=

But, if the EGT's are the only problem during this condition, I'd i= gnore it because you can't damage anything in the engine at this low po= wer setting.

Tracy


On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Al Gietzen <A= LVentures@cox.net> wrote:
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">Relating= to this subject heading; here is an issue that has me wondering.
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">I tune t= he EC2 MAP table at the low end =96 ma= ybe up to 14-15=94 = MAP =96 while on th= e ground; and then tune above that in flight.=A0 And frequently when on rap= id descent with throttle pulled well back; the engine alarm light starts bl= inking. =A0It=92s because EGT is exceeding the limit (I think 1750). Seems = strange. I figure must be really rich, and fuel burning at the exhaust port= making high EGT.
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">So one d= ay I put it in auto tune mode and pull back the throttle on descent, and I = note that the mixture in bins 30-31-32 going way to the rich side; I think = it was bin 32 that was full rich. =A0No longer a high EGT alarm. Hm-m-m; mu= st be it was really lean there, but why would that make high EGT.
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">Then I l= and; and as I pull off the runway the engine is rough and stumbling. Lean o= ut the mixture and it works fine. So I do some auto tuning at low rpm and <= /span>MAP<= font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2">, and find it at those low 30=92s = bins making it much leaner and get things running smoothly. <= /div>
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">So what= =92s happening here; and is there a fix.=A0 Clearly those bins need to be t= uned for low rpm and taxi operation. =A0Why the high EGT on throttle back d= escent? How do I not get the engine alarm on descent, and still get to run = smoothly on the ground?
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">Al
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt;">=A0
-----Ori= ginal Message-----
From: Rotary motors in air= craft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Friday, February 11,= 2011 8:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: E= C2/ Tracy
=A0
=A0Yes, if you decrease the Mode 3 value you will hav= e to increase the map table values across the whole range to compensate.=A0= It's not automatic though, you will have to do it manually.=A0 Auto tu= ne would eventually get it adjusted too but that assumes you run the engine= at all possible settings for long enough for that to happen.=A0 That's= why it pays to do Mode 3 first, Mode 2 second and Mode 1 (or 9) 3rd.=A0 Do= n't ask why I numbered the Modes in that order, I don't have a good= answer other than Mode 1 was the one that would be used most often.=A0 Now= Mode 9 is the most often used but Mode 9 didn't exist in the early day= s of the EC1/2/3.=A0

Last thing to do is auto tune for the fine tuning.=A0

Tracy

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011= at 10:09 AM, <bktru= b@aol.com> wrote:
I didn't run out of injector setting range, but am = very close.=A0My edit page bar=A0graph is pretty much ony=A0one or two=A0li= nes high for most of the Map table. I'm also down to values around -120= for most of the addresses. I=A0thought about setting mode 3 a bit lower.Ii= f so, and I then go back and re-tune it to the aproximate fuel/air settings= I have now, does it change the bar graph and the values at each address?
=A0
Say, for instance, MAP address 80=A0shows a setting of = -118, and only one line on the bar graph. If I lower the injector setting i= n mode 3 and re-tune to the same mixture setting, will the setting be highe= r than -118 and will the bar graph be higher? It would be nicer to be close= r to the middle values, rather then the bottom (-127) or top (+127), so I h= ave more adjustability in the future if I were to need it for some reason. = Even though it runs nicely now, i'm still up around 8 "o"s on= the horizontal mixture graph.
=A0
Brian Trubee
=A0
-----Original M= essage-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 6:38 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing ..= . back ...
turns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 settings. I= went to auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all the way up = and down the map table.

Glad you got it running better Brian.=A0=A0 When you run into the situation= you mentioned above, the first thing you should do is adjust the Injector = Flow Rate (Mode 3).=A0 That will adjust the mixture at ALL throttle setting= s and is a lot easier than resetting the entire MAP Table.=A0 But as long a= s you don't run out of range on the MAP Table adjustments, what you did= will work OK.

Tracy

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:06 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
And on to brighter news. I went out today, did some tun= ing on my plane, turns out it was running really rich on the factory EC2 se= ttings. I went to auto tune and the injector settings went way down, all th= e way up and down the map table. Had to do a little fine tuning, and especi= ally at the staging point, had to richen it up there, at bin # 84. I would = have taken it up for a flight, but had other appointments. It was a gloriou= s day for flying,=A0but a test will have to wait for the next nice day here= in Seattle.Previous flights went OK until just after takeoff, then the eng= ine would surge and backfire, getting the attention of all witnesses within= a mile or two. I can imagine that they were all mentally formulating what = they were going to say to the FAA investigation team. I was starting to que= stion my decision to go rotary, but now have a renewed sense of confidence = in the installation.
=A0
Temperature today was around 50 degrees, even with exte= nded running on the ground at full throttle, temps maxed out at=A0 145 and1= 48 for oil and coolant respectively. Throttling back to 16 inches of MP got= the temps running around 125. Going to wait until summer to close up my co= oling inlets a little.
=A0
Brian Trubee
=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: bktrub@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb = 10, 2011 4:50 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing ..= . back ...

Published February 10, 2011

| Associated Press
A new drilling technique is opening up vast fields of = previously out-of-reach oil in the western United States, helping reverse a= two-decade decline in domestic production of crude.
Companies are inves= ting billions of dollars to get at oil deposits scattered across North = Dakota, Colorado, Texas and California. By 2015, oil executives and analyst= s say, the new fields could yield as much as 2 million barrels of oil a day= -- more than the entire Gulf of Mexico produces now.
This new drilling is expected to raise U.S. production= by at least 20 percent over the next five years. And within 10 years, it c= ould help reduce oil imports by more= than half, advancing a goal that has long eluded policymakers.
"That's a significant contribution to energy = security," says Ed Morse, head of commodities research at Credit Suiss= e.
Oil engineers are applying what critics say is an envi= ronmentally questionable method developed in recent years to tap natural ga= s trapped in underground shale. They drill down and horizontally into the r= ock, then pump water, sand and chemi= cals into the hole to crack the shale and allow gas to flow up.
Because oil molecules are sticky and larger than gas m= olecules, engineers thought the process wouldn't work to squeeze oil ou= t fast enough to make it economical. But drillers learned how to increase t= he number of cracks in the rock and use different chemicals to free up oil = at low cost. "We've completely transformed the natural gas industr= y, and I wouldn't be surprised if we transform the oil business in the next few years too," says Aubre= y McClendon, chief executive of Chesapeake Energy, which is using the techn= ique.
Petroleum engineers first used the method in 2007 to u= nlock oil from a 25,000-square-mile formation under North Dakota and Montan= a known as the Bakken. Production there rose 50 percent in just the past ye= ar, to 458,000 barrels a day, according to Bentek Energy, an energy analysi= s firm.
It was first thought that the Bakken was unique. Then = drillers tapped oil in a shale formation under South Texas called the Eagle= Ford. Drilling permits in the region grew 11-fold last year.=
Now newer fields are showing promise, including the Ni= obrara, which stretches under Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska and Kansas; the L= eonard, in New Mexico and Texas; and the Monterey, in California.
"It's only been fleshed out over the last 12 = months just how consequential this can be," says Mark Papa, chief exec= utive of EOG Resources, the company that first used horizontal drilling to = tap shale oil. "And there will be several additional plays that will c= ome about in the next 12 to 18 months. We're not done yet."=
Environmentalists fear that fluids or wastewater from = the process, called hydraulic fracturing, could pollute drinking water supp= lies. The Environmental Protection Agency is now studying its safety in shale drilling. The agency studied use = of the process in shallower drilling operations in 2004 and found that it w= as safe.
In the Bakken formation, production is rising so fast = there is no space in pipelines to bring the oil to market. Instead, it is b= eing transported to refineries by rail and truck. Drilling companies have h= ad to erect camps to house workers.
Unemployment in North Dakota has fallen to the lowest = level in the nation, 3.8 percent -- less than half the national rate of 9 p= ercent. The influx of mostly male workers to the region has left local men = lamenting a lack of women. Convenience stores are struggling to keep shelve= s stocked with food.
The Bakken and the Eagle Ford are each expected to ult= imately produce 4 billion barrels of oil. That would make them the fifth- a= nd sixth-biggest oil fields ever discovered in the United States. The top f= our are Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, Spraberry Trend in West Texas, the East Texa= s Oilfield and the Kuparuk Field in Alaska.
The fields are attracting billions of dollars of inves= tment from foreign oil giants like Royal Dutch Shell, BP and Norway's S= tatoil, and also from the smaller U.S. drillers who developed the new techn= iques like Chesapeake, EOG Resources and Occidental Petroleum.
Last month China's state-owned oil company CNOOC a= greed to pay Chesapeake $570 million for a one-third stake in a drilling pr= oject in the Niobrara. This followed a $1 billion deal in October between t= he two companies on a project in the Eagle Ford.
With oil prices high and natural-gas prices low, profi= t margins from producing oil from shale are much higher than for gas. Also,= drilling for shale oil is not dependent on high oil prices. Papa says this= oil is cheaper to tap than the oil in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexic= o or in Canada's oil sands.
The country's shale oil resources aren't nearl= y as big as the country's shale gas resources. Drillers have unlocked d= ecades' worth of natural gas, an abundance of supply that may keep pric= es low for years. U.S. shale oil on the other hand will only supply one to = two percent of world consumption by 2015, not nearly enough to affect price= s.
Still, a surge in production last year from the Bakken= helped U.S. oil production grow for the second year in a row, after 23 yea= rs of decline. This during a year when drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the = nation's biggest oil-producing region, was halted after the BP oil spil= l.
U.S. oil production climbed steadily through most of t= he last century and reached a peak of 9.6 million barrels per day in 1970. = The decline since was slowed by new production in Alaska in the 1980s and i= n the Gulf of Mexico more recently. But by 2008, production had fallen to 5= million barrels per day.
Within five years, analysts and executives predict, th= e newly unlocked fields are expected to produce 1 million to 2 million barr= els of oil per day, enough to boost U.S. production 20 percent to 40 percen= t. The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates production will gro= w a more modest 500,000 barrels per day.
By 2020, oil imports could be slashed by as much as 60= percent, according to Credit Suisse's Morse, who is counting on Gulf o= il production to rise and on U.S. gasoline demand to fall.
At today's oil prices of roughly $90 per barrel, s= lashing imports that much would save the U.S. $175 billion a year. Last yea= r, when oil averaged $78 per barrel, the U.S. sent $260 billion overseas fo= r crude, accounting for nearly half the country's $500 billion trade de= ficit.
"We have redefined how to look for oil and gas,&q= uot; says Rehan Rashid, an analyst at FBR Capital Markets. "The implic= ations are major for the nation."
=A0
-----Original M= essage-----
From: hoursaway= 1@comcast.net
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing ..= . back ...
All this was sa= id=A040 years ago.=A0 =A0"""We will be out of oil in twenty = years"""=A0 Coffee is bad for you""" now coff= ee is good for you & we have more oil than anyone ever dreamed availabl= e + being used many times more efficiently,=A0 the """ones i= n the know ...do not know!!!!=A0=A0But they can predict the weather 50 year= s from now.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 =A0David R. Cook=A0=A0 RV6A=A0 Rotary=A0 -4 deg. F. Lansing MI.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Staten" <david.staten@gmail.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:15:02 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing ..= . back ...
Well, I can agree with Lynn for one thing.. Carter was = 2nd worst president ever.... (After Bush 43)...=A0 :P
=A0
Ethanol in fuel was never about efficiency. NEVER. It w= as about replacing a very toxic oxygenate (MTBE) with something cleaner bur= ning and less toxic. Lead in aviation fuel will go the same way.. its inevi= table. One plant makes the lead that goes in=A0it. They go tits up and the = 25 percent of the aviation fleet that burns 75 percent of the leaded avgas = will be knee-capped brutally.
=A0
Biofuel is not exclusively ethanol. Its also HYDROCARBO= NS synthesized or processed from living matter, as opposed to fossil fuels = naturally developed from long dead matter. Its bacteria in a digester/react= or with a feedstock and a product stream. Ethanol is in cars to reduce smog= .. nothing more. Biofuels in aircraft do not necessarily have to include et= hanol (but it could).
=A0
Ifwe dont start doing more than paying lip service to p= reserving our environment, we will have the worlds best military protecting= the worlds largest ecological wasteland.
=A0
As long as we are overly=A0dependent on fossil fuels, w= e will be subject to the foreign policy of others. Biofuels, Nuclear, Solar= , Wind, Hydroelectric... all things that need to be developed further. And = if we wait until its too late to transition, our worlds best military will = be reduced to throwing rocks and writing nasty letters, because our turbine= powered planes and tanks dont run on good intentions.

Personally... if we have to burn oil... Why burn mine (ours)=A0when I can b= urn yours (theirs)..
=A0
I'm not hardly a hairy, stoned, tree hugging hippie= , but I do recognize their point..
=A0
Dave
=A0
=A0
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:24 PM, <hoursaway1@comcast.net> wro= te:
Lynn for Presid= ent,,,,,,,,,,( might be in central FL this winter, will contact, stop &= say hi )=A0=A0 David R. Cook=A0 RV6A=A0=A0 Rotary.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lehanover@aol.= com
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:39:57 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replaced Tension Bolt, Oil Seal, Thrust Bearing ..= . back ...
In a message dated 2/9/2011 12:02:39 P.M. Eastern Stand= ard Time, jwhaley= @datacast.com writes:
Interesting enough, though the scary p= art is there=92s no mention in the text of AVGAS or GAS =85 only the subjec= t uses the term AVGAS.
The text body uses the terms =93unleaded, sustainable g= eneral aviation fuel, credible renewable, unleaded fuel, 'green' fuel and the exclusive = use of biofuel in air show performances."=A0 I fear this is another attemp= t to push ETHANOL or heavy ethanol-blended fuel.
Jeff
If you take away government subsidies from the green fu= el tree hugger play. Gasohol would be gone in a month. It takes almost a ga= llon of fuel to produce a gallon of gasohol. You have to boil it. It is mad= e just like Jack Danials.
=A0
It is the biggest victory of form over function ever im= agined by mankind.
=A0
The farmers love it because they save money as the kern= el quality is lower, and the water content is higher, and they get governme= nt money. The government pays the oil companies to use it. The oil companie= s get to displace actual gasoline with the crap for even more profits, and = the user pays all of them extra in taxes so you can get 30% less mileage an= d performance. But wait...........there's more.........Plus the better = corn not now being grown for feed stock plastics and human consumption has = boosted the price of that corn. So the farmer profits again. The beef man l= ooses his a__, and you pay even higher beef, pork and poultry prices in add= ition the taxes that support this house of cards. When beef prices get high= enough, dairy herds are thinned at higher rates (younger) and milk product= ion drops. Milk prices go up.
=A0
What to do?=A0
=A0
Send the entire energy department home. Established in = 75 to eliminate our dependence on offshore oil.
=A0
Eliminate all farm subsidies. Phase out oil imports to = zero over the next 7 years. Drill here. Drill now.
=A0
We can be cut off at the knees and turned into a 3rd wo= rld country by the towel heads who hate us. If you don't remember the o= il crisis of 74 under the (Now) second worst president in this country'= s history, Jimmy Carter, Look it up. Long lines on odd license number days,= or even license number days for 10 gallons of fuel.
=A0
The worlds strongest military reduced to writing nasty = letters?????=A0
=A0
If the tree huggers want to live in mud huts, smoke dop= e, and use gasohol let them pay for it with their money not mine.
=A0
Look up Bakken oil formation.
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0


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