X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ey0-f180.google.com ([209.85.215.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4587458 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 21 Nov 2010 21:51:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.180; envelope-from=dmlobner@gmail.com Received: by eyf18 with SMTP id 18so3859868eyf.25 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:51:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=vdjQMsdEJFJXbwhd82pMCO4U4lLsMzrDNxBKGYnTVMc=; b=APkd7UqSmLXkaCeMtwA1PaOnmL5JPDepplNPJitFTF26/ChK0GuA9ssx3ZcpZ3lK4j GIANxswkU3b6GAFAybWo1VN/PmgauDJwuxijkpPRWNkfShvvAVGKm1EApWB740CBZ1Yt inq5CsH1O4LcHKA85chvfJ1va7svEYywUrR0s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZMNXOH7XdX7W2Q2GPR9Eec86fRC8hPZeVwce1GJ6UdQ/ZCzY9b1lwDQ/Cp4MeWJONF 3s87M4uIfSfGf9sUxT6Q4CzGbmxt0KVvFij1/vp0lRozszn5/WBjtB63fpclIV8V2tKS Hdv/+DOKYeMgGHcNn2Jbk/kfDbL8ISk+XvJcc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.9.140 with SMTP id l12mr7213141ebl.13.1290394270754; Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.27.200 with HTTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:51:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:51:10 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Nitro in a rotary aircraft - N/A 20B? From: Dustin Lobner To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3fa820e6e204959b54c2 --0015174c3fa820e6e204959b54c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tracy - awesome, that sounds great. Thanks for designing a flexible product. I know you probably didn't have nitro in mind when designing that feature, it's nice that it'll work though. While we're on the topic of nitro Tracy, how well do you think your RD-1C will stand up to the occasional 350HP burst? I do a lot of mechanical testing at my company and actually generate a lot of the AGMA curves that our company uses in aircraft hardware, I just don't know how they get applied by the designer. I'd be planning on a teardown after a shorter than normal amount of time. If I do go this route, I plan on keeping a log of nitro shots and have each one count towards half an hour or an hour of PSRU lifetime. Does that seem reasonable? What time would you recommend, or any feelings on the matter in general? Ken - What model of NOS kit do you have? I went to their website and it seems to be broken out by car type and whatnot. Some sort of a generic kit, or was it a custom setup? Thanks! Dustin On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Tracy wrote: > I think Ken is right that the EC3 would work fine with nitrous but to be on > the safe side you could set the B controller up with less ignition advance > and/or disable the trailing coils during takeoff with the nitros shot. > There is a coil disable input on the EC3 for coil testing that could be used > for that purpose. > > Tracy > > > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Dustin Lobner wrote: > >> Ken, >> >> How easy would it be to add it after the fact? I'm building a Bearhawk, >> planning to put it on floats eventually, but not right away. The nitro >> would be assistance getting off the water, same as you. If I were to add >> the nitro when I add floats, how hard would that be? >> >> Dustin >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Ken Welter wrote: >> >>> >>> I have been running NOS with a 125 hp burst to get my Coot up on the >>> step and out of the water, without it I would just have a boat that could >>> not fly, I think it would work fine with Tracy's setup as the nitrous system >>> adds extra fuel to make up for the extra oxygen, use only the NOS brand >>> system as most other systems are junk. >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 21, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Dustin Lobner wrote: >>> >>> Yeah, I'll put that idea to rest for awhile then. Thanks! >>> >>> Dustin >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 6:42 AM, Tracy wrote: >>> >>>> Nitrous systems that I've seen have a completely independent system for >>>> injecting additional fuel when the nitrous is on. The EC3 has no way of >>>> knowing anything about the NOX system so it does nothing different. >>>> >>>> Tracy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 1:26 AM, Dustin Lobner wrote: >>>> >>>>> Some talk on HomeBuiltAirplanes.com forums brought up the question, >>>>> has someone ever used nitrous oxide on a rotary aircraft install? I'm >>>>> pretty sure a supercub-type plane did that awhile back (on a Lyco) for a >>>>> super short takeoff roll using a fixed pitch cruise prop (with a crapton of >>>>> HP at takeoff). That's close to my application in the end, probably with a >>>>> N/A 20B, hence the interest. >>>>> >>>>> Tracy, how would your EC3 handle short bursts of nitro? Would that >>>>> totally throw the mixture curve, would I need to manual adjust while doing >>>>> it, or would it auto compensate somehow? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Dustin >>>>> Rockford, IL >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > --0015174c3fa820e6e204959b54c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy - awesome, that sounds great.=A0 Thanks for designing a flexible prod= uct.=A0 I know you probably didn't have nitro in mind when designing th= at feature, it's nice that it'll work though.=A0

While we&#= 39;re on the topic of nitro Tracy, how well do you think your RD-1C will st= and up to the occasional 350HP burst?=A0 I do a lot of mechanical testing a= t my company and actually generate a lot of the AGMA curves that our compan= y uses in aircraft hardware, I just don't know how they get applied by = the designer.=A0 I'd be planning on a teardown after a shorter than nor= mal amount of time.=A0 If I do go this route, I plan on keeping a log of ni= tro shots and have each one count towards half an hour or an hour of PSRU l= ifetime.=A0 Does that seem reasonable?=A0 What time would you recommend, or= any feelings on the matter in general?

Ken - What model of NOS kit do you have?=A0 I went to their website and= it seems to be broken out by car type and whatnot.=A0 Some sort of a gener= ic kit, or was it a custom setup?=A0 Thanks!

Dustin=A0

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
I think Ken is right that the EC3 would work fine with nitrous but to be on= the safe side you could set the B controller up with less ignition advance= and/or disable the trailing coils during takeoff with the nitros shot.=A0= =A0 There is a coil disable input on the EC3 for coil testing that could be= used for that purpose.

Tracy


On = Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Dustin Lobner <dmlobner@gmail.com>= wrote:
Ken,

How easy would it be to add it after the fact?=A0 I'm build= ing a Bearhawk, planning to put it on floats eventually, but not right away= .=A0 The nitro would be assistance getting off the water, same as you.=A0 I= f I were to add the nitro when I add floats, how hard would that be?

Dustin


On= Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Ken Welter <rotarycoot.ken@gmail.co= m> wrote:

=A0=A0I have been= running NOS with a 125 hp burst to get my Coot up on the step and out of t= he water, without it I would just have a boat that could not fly, I think i= t would work fine with Tracy's setup as the nitrous system adds extra f= uel to make up for the extra oxygen, use only the NOS brand system as most = other systems are junk.
=A0Ken



On Nov 21, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Dustin Lobner wrote:
Yeah, I'll put that idea to rest for aw= hile then.=A0 Thanks!

Dustin

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 6:42 A= M, Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
Nitrous systems t= hat I've seen have a completely independent system for injecting additi= onal fuel when the nitrous is on.=A0 The EC3 has no way of knowing anything= about the NOX system so it does nothing different.

Tracy


On Sun,= Nov 21, 2010 at 1:26 AM, Dustin Lobner <dmlobner@gmail.com> wrote:
Some talk on Ho= meBuiltAirplanes.com forums brought up the question, has someone ever u= sed nitrous oxide on a rotary aircraft install?=A0 I'm pretty sure a su= percub-type plane did that awhile back (on a Lyco) for a super short takeof= f roll using a fixed pitch cruise prop (with a crapton of HP at takeoff).= =A0 That's close to my application in the end, probably with a N/A 20B,= hence the interest.

Tracy, how would your EC3 handle short bursts of nitro?=A0 Would that t= otally throw the mixture curve, would I need to manual adjust while doing i= t, or would it auto compensate somehow?

Thanks!

Dustin
Rockford, IL






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