X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ey0-f180.google.com ([209.85.215.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4579978 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:04:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.180; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by eyf18 with SMTP id 18so2688467eyf.25 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:03:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=q0/fL8G6vPEYbW11ZyZTgdFYW1DQjWm0j9YoPL79bhc=; b=DiDJkKH1KZb3vQGBtMeifEfSVsv5GHf2uqc1xfUMpLysmg5up05ASbW9FkM9OglD92 JSwCbJBzSXYApgijK9LdA/MOh1FrkFb99fKnkLrYeN1nFuVciKJ3Sc6GpLmIT2782a+A FTJCuBvyorTjQyphsI66L/rcQ+0UpUDC+/T9I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=PL36HTH2SV/1i780BPXON/3z+uyKf9xs9TCzKeSmBezbJRHNKbrC04Y7FAYh30VOE2 v1ygBojjynk/3iYi1mhEGf8mpJWU2XH3gb86hSwcmjiBwMJBzy7IQtrLvjjLbzzpSe0n GINXwYQsEFx8xFibt+6uT+kj+CMRTBEOVEsGU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.32.141 with SMTP id c13mr1405462ebd.51.1289847817632; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.36.17 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:03:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 13:03:37 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] "COSMO" or 93-95 RX7 Auto Xmission Bell Housing From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c391afbfc8304951c18fa --0015174c391afbfc8304951c18fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I didn't get the transmission or bell housing with my engine. On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Mark, > > Forgot to ask you something in the previous post.............Was a au= to > transmission included > with either of your 20B engines ?............My "Cosmo" 13B included the > transmission which I > robbed the bell housing from to provide an extension for my "RD1C" like > "Bulent" did for his > "COSY" ( see attached photo ).............This required a longer RD1C > input shaft of which there > are only two in existance that Tracy agreed make ( against his better > judgement ) as these > .were "One Offs" and pricey................I am trying to find another be= ll > housing from a "Cosmo" > as a spare...............I do not think anyone ever has a use for the > transmission and they end up > as scrap..............The 93-95 RX7 auto xmission bell housing is the sa= me > but very few RX7's > of those years had a automatic xmission.............. > > If you or anyone else of the group has or knows where I might find on= e > of these bell housings > please let me know............... > > P.S.- The bell Housing bolts to the transmission for those not familar > with it........... > > Thanks, > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 10:19:03 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from > David) > > Kelly, > > Well, I would usually settle for somewhere around 2300 rpm as it got too > "ratty" below that RPM. I didn't mention it in my earlier post, but I ha= d > borrowed Bob Darrah's EC-2 to run while mine was being re-worked . Bob's > EC-2 didn't have the injector snubbers, and it had not been upgraded sinc= e > 2006. Tracy was surprised that it ran as well as it did. However, while > not finely tuned, it did run better than my unit. > > Yes, I suppose I'll have to record a ground run, just for the fun of it, > and to help us through the long winter months ahead. Stay tuned (no pun > intended). > > Mark > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > >> Mark, >> What was your idle MP before the EC2 update ?...............Do you >> have any video with >> sounds of that "Leg Chilling" 20B at idle ?.................I could use = a >> thrill !!.................<:) >> >> >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ed Anderson >> >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Mon, November 15, 2010 8:39:02 AM >> >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from >> David) >> >> 7000 rpm static - WoW! sounds like not enough pitch in the prop to abso= rb >> the power - tough situation to be in - NOT! >> >> Regarding your 17" manifold pressure at idle - here is a comparison of >> port timing information from Paul Yaw >> You can see that the total open time of the PP is considerable greater >> than the turbo 13B. So for a given rpm, I would conclude that since ave= rage >> amount of time the PP intake is open longer to the atmosphere for the s= ame >> RPM as a turbo 13B, that the intake manifold pressure would be higher f= or >> the same rpm. So what you are seeing just may well be "normal" for a PP >> port. >> >> But then I don't own and have no experience with a PP. >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >> Second and Third Generation Turbo 13B >> >> IO 32=B0 ATDC >> IC 50=B0 ABDC >> EO 71=B0 BBDC >> EC 48=B0 ATDC Mazda Factory Peripheral Port >> >> IO 86=B0 BTDC >> IC 75=B0 ABDC >> EO 73=B0 BBDC >> EC 65=B0 ATDC >> >> >> >> >> >> A >> >> >> >> ASThis site is meant to give information >> >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2010 9:09 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from >> David) >> >> OK, Doug, I'll post my weekend update. >> >> As some of you may know, I have had troubles getting my 20B to run as it >> should. Problems started about 3 years back when I decided to convert f= rom >> the stock CAS to the Renesis style CAS. While I did have limited succes= s, >> it was very sensitive to alignment and air gap of the CAS sensor, and >> possibly some other issues that I am not smart enough to figure out. I = had >> trouble getting it to run above 5800 rpm. >> >> About a month ago I decided that enough was enough and I called Tracy to >> say that I wanted my EC-2 converted back to the original configuration. = I >> sent it back to Tracy who made the mod and upgraded the software to the >> latest version. I got it back on Friday and was anxious to see how it w= ould >> perform. I installed the upgraded EC-2 on Saturday. Yea, it started on= the >> third prop blade and ran quite well, although the Mixture knob was not a= t >> "12 O'clock", it ran very smooth. Following the instructions in the man= ual, >> first thing I did was to adjust Mode 3 to compensate for my larger 60# >> injectors. Now it was running really well in the upper rpm/map ranges. = A >> little adjusting of the lower addresses using Mode 1 & 9 and it was idli= ng >> down around 1500 rpm. (Keep in mind that this is a p-port motor.) The >> exhaust tone at low idle is hard to describe...it is enough to send chil= ls >> up your leg. ;-0 >> >> Sunday, after a some more tuning, I got it to where it would almost >> do 7000 rpm static. (Keep in mind that Lockhart, TX is a small country = town >> and this was Sunday morning. You could probably hear me tuning my engin= e >> all over town.) Confident that it would stay running, I decided it was = time >> to fly. It climbed out at 6700 rpm as smooth as could be. There was a >> 5000' ceiling, so I couldn't climb too high, but the air was silky smoot= h. >> I flew a couple of patterns, climbing as I circled. At 3500 msl I heade= d >> east and did some tuning with Mode 9 at different MAP settings. Up and = down >> the scale, fine-tuning each address. She was running like a fine Swiss >> watch, or to put it another way, like a rotary should. >> >> Issues: >> 1) MAP Readings - It appears that I may have a vacuum leak as the MAP a= t >> idle is reading 17.4". Next trip to the airport I will double-check to = make >> sure that I got both lines plugged into the EC-2 properly, and check for >> leaks elsewhere. It is amazing that it idles as well as it does under t= hese >> circumstances. Note that rather than using a throttle body, I am using = a >> slide-throttle which is located just a few inches from the intake ports. >> So, the vacuum lines are plugged into the unused oil injection ports in = the >> rotor housings (no oil injection pump). Could this account for the unus= ual >> MAP readings? I do have a plenum, but since it is open to the atmospher= e, I >> can't measure MAP from there. I think there are others that use this sc= heme >> with success. >> 2) Performance - I seem to hit a speed wall at around 2000-2100 prop >> rpm. I can set the prop higher and get a higher engine rpm, but the hig= her >> rpm doesn't translate into higher speeds. The speed will gradually >> start bleeding off. Not sure why this is happening. Could be tuning, o= r >> intake/exhaust design, or just a characteristic of the M/T prop. Or, ma= ybe >> the engine isn't making enough horsepower to push the airframe through t= he >> air any faster. It is annoying though, knowing that you have another 15= 00 >> rpm on tap but can't use it. >> >> 3) Alternator - the voltage reading on main alternator is low. This is = a >> new alternator which has been converted to external regulator. I'll try >> adjusting the regulator (again). >> >> All in all, a very successful weekend. As usual, more issues to sort >> out though. >> >> Mark S. >> Lancair ES, N/A P-port 20B >> Lockhart, TX >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:20 PM, wrote: >> >>> Rodger that Doug, I just went through all the paperwork again to make >>> sure all ducks in a row, then shot one of the ducks & had dinner, a swe= et >>> red wine marinade is the secret to good tender duck you know. David. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: DLOMHEIM@aol.com >>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 7:09:45 PM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David) >>> >>> Na...gotta be 321...don't you think David?! I'm still hoping to >>> read about some flying exploits from this weekend, from someone on the >>> list! Surely all our aviators weren't just sitting around watching foo= tball >>> all day like us gimpy / DNIF guys!!!! :) >>> >>> Mucho congrats on getting your project to the point of final inspection >>> prior to first flight! Take your time, be safe, and enjoy the moment! >>> Then post some pictures / data of the big event on the list! :) >>> >>> Doug >>> >> >> > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --0015174c391afbfc8304951c18fa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, I didn't get the transmission or bell housing with my engin= e.
=A0


=A0
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Kelly Troyer <= span dir=3D"ltr"><keltro@att.net&g= t; wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0 Forgot to ask you something in the previous post............= .Was a auto transmission included
=A0with either of your 20B engines ?..= ..........My "Cosmo" 13B included the transmission=A0which=A0I
=A0robbed the bell housing from=A0to provide an extension for my "= ;RD1C" like "Bulent" did for his
=A0"COSY" ( see attached photo ).............This required a= longer RD1C input shaft of which there
=A0are only two in existance that Tracy agreed make ( against his bett= er judgement ) as these
.were "One Offs" and pricey................I am trying to fi= nd another bell housing from a "Cosmo"
=A0as a spare...............I do not think anyone ever has a use for t= he transmission and they end up
=A0as scrap..............The 93-95 RX7 auto=A0xmission=A0bell housing = is the same but very few RX7's
=A0of those years had a automatic xmission..............
=A0
=A0=A0 If=A0 you or anyone else of the group has or knows where I migh= t find one of these bell housings
=A0please let me know...............
=A0
=A0P.S.- The bell Housing bolts to the transmission for those not fami= lar with it...........
=A0
=A0Thanks,
=A0=A0=A0=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com&= gt;
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, November 15, 201= 0 10:19:03 AM
Subject: [= FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David)

Kelly,
=A0
Well, I would usually settle for somewhere=A0around=A02300 rpm as it= =A0got too "ratty" below that RPM.=A0 I didn't=A0mention it i= n my earlier post, but I had borrowed Bob Darrah's EC-2 to run while mi= ne was being re-worked .=A0 Bob's EC-2 didn't have the injector snu= bbers, and it had not been upgraded since 2006.=A0 Tracy was surprised that= it ran as well as it did.=A0 However, while not finely tuned, it did run b= etter than my unit.=A0
=A0
Yes, I suppose I'll have to=A0record a ground run, just for the fu= n of it, and to help us through the long winter months ahead.=A0 Stay tuned= (no pun intended).=A0
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0=A0=A0 What was your idle MP before the EC2 update ?...............= Do you have any=A0video with
sounds of that "Leg=A0Chilling" 20B at idle=A0?.............= ....I could use a thrill !!.................<:)
=A0
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: Ed Anderson <= eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20

To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 8:39:= 02 AM=20

Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David)

7000 rpm static - WoW!=A0 sounds like not enough = pitch in the prop to absorb the power - tough situation to be in - NOT!
=A0
Regarding your 17" manifold pressure at idle= - here is a comparison=A0 of port timing information from Paul Yaw<= /div>
You can see that the total open time of the PP is= considerable greater than the turbo 13B.=A0 So for a given rpm, I would co= nclude that since average amount of time =A0the PP intake is open longer to= the atmosphere for the same RPM as a turbo 13B, =A0that the intake manifol= d pressure would be higher for the same rpm.=A0 So what you are seeing just= may well be "normal" for a PP port.
=A0
But then I don't own and have no experience w= ith a PP.
=A0
Ed
=A0
=A0=20

=A0

Second and Third Generation Turbo 13B

IO 32=B0 ATDC
IC 50=B0 ABDC
EO 71=B0 BBDC
EC 48=B0 ATDC =

Mazda Factory Peripheral Port

IO 86=B0 BTDC
IC 75=B0 ABDC
EO 73=B0 BBDC<= br>EC 65=B0 ATDC

=A0

=A0

A

=A0

ASThis site is meant to give info= rmation


Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:09 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...= (from David)

OK, Doug,=A0I'll post my weekend update.=A0
=A0
As some of you may know, I have had troubles getting my 20B to run as = it should.=A0 Problems started about 3 years back when I decided to convert= from the stock CAS to the Renesis style CAS.=A0 While I did have limited s= uccess, it was very sensitive to alignment and air gap of the CAS sensor, a= nd possibly some other issues that I am not smart enough to figure out.=A0 = I had trouble getting it to run above 5800 rpm.=A0
=A0
About a month ago I decided that enough was enough and I called Tracy = to say that I wanted my EC-2 converted back to the original configuration.= =A0=A0I sent it back to Tracy who made the mod and upgraded the software to= the latest version.=A0=A0I got it back on Friday and was anxious to see ho= w it would perform.=A0 I installed the upgraded=A0EC-2 on Saturday.=A0=A0Ye= a, it started on the third prop blade and ran quite well, although the Mixt= ure knob was not at "12=A0O'clock", it ran very smooth.=A0 Fo= llowing the instructions in the manual, first thing I did was to=A0adjust= =A0Mode 3=A0to=A0compensate for my larger 60# injectors.=A0 Now it was runn= ing really well in the upper rpm/map ranges.=A0 A little adjusting of the l= ower addresses using=A0Mode 1=A0& 9 and=A0it was idling down=A0around 1= 500 rpm.=A0 (Keep in mind that this is a=A0p-port motor.)=A0=A0The exhaust = tone at low idle is hard to describe...it=A0is enough to send chills up you= r leg.=A0 ;-0=A0
=A0
Sunday, after a=A0some more tuning, I got it to where it would=A0almos= t do=A07000 rpm static.=A0 (Keep in mind that=A0Lockhart, TX is a small cou= ntry town and this was Sunday morning.=A0 You could probably hear me tuning= my engine all over town.)=A0 Confident that it would stay running, I decid= ed it was time to fly.=A0=A0It climbed out at 6700 rpm as smooth as could b= e.=A0=A0There was a 5000' ceiling, so I couldn't climb too high, bu= t the air=A0was silky smooth.=A0 I flew a couple of patterns, climbing as I= circled.=A0 At 3500 msl I headed east and did some tuning with Mode 9 at d= ifferent MAP settings.=A0 Up and down the scale,=A0fine-tuning each address= .=A0 She was running like=A0a fine Swiss watch, or to put it another way, l= ike a rotary should.=A0=A0
=A0
Issues:=A0
1)=A0 MAP Readings - It appears that I may have a vacuum leak as the= =A0MAP at idle is reading 17.4".=A0 Next trip to the airport I will do= uble-check to make sure that=A0I got both lines plugged into the EC-2 prope= rly,=A0and check for leaks elsewhere.=A0 It is amazing that it=A0idles as w= ell as it does under these circumstances.=A0=A0Note that rather than using = a throttle body,=A0I am using a slide-throttle which is located=A0just a fe= w inches from the intake ports.=A0 So,=A0the vacuum lines are plugged into = the unused oil injection ports in the rotor housings (no oil injection pump= ).=A0=A0Could this=A0account for the=A0unusual MAP readings?=A0 I do have a= plenum, but since=A0it is open to the atmosphere, I can't=A0measure MA= P from there.=A0 I think there are others that use this scheme with success= .=A0
2)=A0Performance - I seem to hit a speed wall at around 2000-2100 prop= rpm.=A0=A0I can=A0set=A0the prop=A0higher and=A0get a=A0higher engine rpm,= but the=A0higher rpm doesn't translate into higher speeds.=A0 The spee= d=A0will gradually start=A0bleeding off.=A0 Not sure why this is happening.= =A0 Could be tuning, or intake/exhaust design, or=A0just a characteristic o= f the M/T prop.=A0=A0Or, maybe the engine isn't making enough horsepowe= r to push the airframe through the air any faster.=A0 It is annoying though= , knowing that you have another 1500 rpm on tap but can't use it.
=A0
3) Alternator - the voltage reading on=A0main alternator is low.=A0 Th= is is a new alternator which has been converted to external regulator.=A0 I= 'll try adjusting the regulator (again).=A0
=A0
All in all, a very successful weekend.=A0 As usual, more=A0issues to s= ort out though.=A0
=A0
Mark S.
Lancair ES, N/A P-port 20B
Lockhart, TX
=A0
=A0

=A0
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:20 PM, <hoursaway1@comcast.net> wrote:
Rodger t= hat Doug, I just went through all the paperwork again to make sure all duck= s in a row, then shot one of the ducks & had dinner, a sweet red wine m= arinade is the secret to good tender duck you know.=A0 David.
----- Original Message -----
From: DLOMHEIM@aol.com
To: "Rotary = motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 7:09:45 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Hey are = those 304 Stainless staples...(from David)

Na...gotta be 321...don't you think David?!=A0 I'm still hopin= g=A0to read=A0about some flying exploits from this weekend, from someone on= the list!=A0=A0Surely all our aviators weren't=A0just sitting around w= atching football all day like us gimpy / DNIF guys!!!!=A0=A0=A0:)=A0=A0
=A0
Mucho congrats on getting your project to the point of final inspectio= n prior to first flight!=A0 Take your time, be safe, and enjoy=A0the moment= !=A0 Then=A0post some pictures / data of the big event on the list!=A0 :)= =A0=A0=A0=A0
=A0
Doug

=


--
= Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html


--0015174c391afbfc8304951c18fa--