X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-gx0-f180.google.com ([209.85.161.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4485296 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:31:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.180; envelope-from=david.staten@gmail.com Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so207184gxk.25 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type; bh=ZhAOAVLs1x406Wvi8u3+nqrf3SZ4jmw2hpwih2KJujo=; b=UNaCW96Ct7FjZp6mxWcbWaFNqvOecgCRGIBc9g9AHa2XifKxQX1bWDMZZN+FyNtQe6 E6JXXtFpEKoBDJPYunttrHfmM3CbEVkvKpkmF8alGWDAQo0gFfnJlZbNwyYri9tmvuS7 hN60GCACLl1F72M5Td1RMAvIrWyyQFv/McPH8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; b=fQZvr3QX8Ubc8yte58U4vPr+vWAbx3FESBIoAmwGpyLa8RgVX2g00mrSmx7Io1vUqr Y2Y45WNhhjmqiC4dYdzONnJtODjI8OlAgHBH3xwsPlejNRsNAwg+aT74RNGvdutguafe gOIJQo6teSdJsw/Zb9u4F28qnYPNWq2EF2Yv4= Received: by 10.151.141.17 with SMTP id t17mr1307271ybn.32.1285731063096; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([216.80.142.154]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t2sm7981160yba.2.2010.09.28.20.31.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4CA2B310.5070002@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:31:28 -0500 From: Dave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100915 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Loss References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050600040504020409060303" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050600040504020409060303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like you will be pulling the engine Chris. First thing I'd check would be the locknut on top of the oil pump inside the front cover, next would be the key on the oil pump shaft.. you can get to these without cracking open the engine or dropping the pan... BUT.. (its been a while).. if you have to take the front eshaft hub off, make sure you go vertical to keep the needle bearings from getting pinched like they did in our first build... Did you build this engine up or did you buy it assembled? Dave On 9/28/2010 10:11 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > Geeesh...the mouse froze again. > To continue, I got a moderate, steady stream of oil coming from the > remote filter mount. So, I had some flow. I then went to the end of > the hoses where it re-enters the engine after flowing through the two > oil coolers. Well, here there was no joy. No oil coming out. I did > refill the filter before I reinstalled it and cranked the engine for > quite a while to no avail. Next, I unhooked a few of the other hose > connections past the filter and still no flow when cranking. Finally, > I checked all the way back to the filter outlet and no oil would come > out. I changed to a different filter and still no flow from out of > the filter. So, I have some flow....not a lot into the filter buy > none out. > I HATE the idea of dropping the pan (will be a real pain) to check the > oil pump and pressure gage, but I am not quite sure as what else to > check at this point. When I return tomorrow, I will remove the plugs > to take some of the stress off the starter and see if I get flow out > of the filter. I am also concerned now that I have been cranking the > system long enough that some important parts are not running with a > lot of needed oil, such as the PSRU etc. > If I would have just happened to look at the OP gauge, I would have > never known there was a problem as the engine "sounded" strong and > smooth and continued to do so when I started it to test my pressure > after discovering the problems. > Hopefully this will be a bit more directly answered by the engine guru > types on the list since it is not specific to Tracy's electronics. > Please, what else should I check, I am about at the end of my testing > skill set. Also, what say ye as to what the problem "sounds" like???? > Thanks, as always. > Chris Barber > Houston > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on > behalf of Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:59 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Loss > > Aggg. I need a new computer. The mouse froze and the message sent > prematurly. > Anyway, I rechecked the wires to the EM2 and at the sensor again and > all checked fine. Again, I started the engine, but was shut down as > soon as I still saw no pressure. > Next, I hooked up two separate mechanical pressure gages in three > different locations in the oil system, started the engine three times > very briefly. Each time the engin started and seemed to run fine for > the VERY short time I allowed it to run. No pressure reading on two > of the test points, and about 6psi on the reading from the turbor > engine outlet to the turbo. > Ok, I unscrewed the oil filter, which is located remotely just as the > oil comes out of the front (by the pully's oposite the prop) of the > engine. I hooked up a remote start switch, climbed under the engine > and cranked the engie.....I got a moderate, steady flow of oil > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on > behalf of Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:42 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Oil Pressure Loss > > In the never ending tradition of two step forward and three steps > back, I was working on my RPM drop out at 6000 rmp (messed with seveal > resistors to no avail). As I was sitting on the ramp at idle for a > few minutes, focusing on the RPM's I glanced over at the Oil Pressure > and noted it was flashing as an alert and was showing almost NO oil > pressure (4 or 5 psi). I instantly shut down the engine. > The engine appeared to be running fine before I shut it down. I > checked the wire to the back of the engine monitor and all was fine. > I also checked the continutiy of the wire to the sensor and it was > good. I started the engine again and it started fine and seem to run > fine, however, the OP did not kick in so I shut it down again --------------050600040504020409060303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like you will be pulling the engine Chris.

First thing I'd check would be the locknut on top of the oil pump inside the front cover, next would be the key on the oil pump shaft.. you can get to these without cracking open the engine or dropping the pan... BUT.. (its been a while).. if you have to take the front eshaft hub off, make sure you go vertical to keep the needle bearings from getting pinched like they did in our first build...

Did you build this engine up or did you buy it assembled?

Dave

On 9/28/2010 10:11 PM, Chris Barber wrote:
Geeesh...the mouse froze again.
 
To continue, I got a moderate, steady stream of oil coming from the remote filter mount.  So, I had some flow.  I then went to the end of the hoses where it re-enters the engine after flowing through the two oil coolers.  Well, here there was no joy.  No oil coming out.  I did refill the filter before I reinstalled it and cranked the engine for quite a while to no avail.  Next, I unhooked a few of the other hose connections past the filter and still no flow when cranking.  Finally, I checked all the way back to the filter outlet and no oil would come out.  I changed to a different filter and still no flow from out of the filter.  So, I have some flow....not a lot into the filter buy none out.
 
I HATE the idea of dropping the pan (will be a real pain) to check the oil pump and pressure gage, but I am not quite sure as what else to check at this point.  When I return tomorrow, I will remove the plugs to take some of the stress off the starter and see if I get flow out of the filter.   I am also concerned now that I have been cranking the system long enough that some important parts are not running with a lot of needed oil, such as the PSRU etc.
 
If I would have just happened to look at the OP gauge, I would have never known there was a problem as the engine "sounded" strong and smooth and continued to do so when I started it to test my pressure after discovering the problems.
 
Hopefully this will be a bit more directly answered by the engine guru types on the list since it is not specific to Tracy's electronics.
 
Please, what else should I check, I am about at the end of my testing skill set.  Also, what say ye as to what the problem "sounds" like????
 
Thanks, as always.
 
Chris Barber
Houston
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:59 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Loss

Aggg. I need a new computer.  The mouse froze and the message sent prematurly.
 
Anyway, I rechecked the wires to the EM2 and at the sensor again and all checked fine.  Again, I started the engine, but was shut down as soon as I still saw no pressure.
 
Next, I hooked up two separate mechanical pressure gages in three different locations in the oil system, started the engine three times very briefly.  Each time the engin started and seemed to run fine for the VERY short time I allowed it to run.  No pressure reading on two of the test points, and about 6psi on the reading from the turbor engine outlet to the turbo.
 
Ok, I unscrewed the oil filter, which is located remotely just as the oil comes out of the front (by the pully's oposite the prop) of the engine.  I hooked up a remote start switch, climbed under the engine and cranked the engie.....I got a moderate, steady flow of oil
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Pressure Loss

In the never ending tradition of two step forward and three steps back, I was working on my RPM drop out at 6000 rmp (messed with seveal resistors to no avail).  As I was sitting on the ramp at idle for a few minutes, focusing on the RPM's I glanced over at the Oil Pressure and noted it was flashing as an alert and was showing almost NO oil pressure (4 or 5 psi).  I instantly shut down the engine. 
 
The engine appeared to be running fine before I shut it down.  I checked the wire to the back of the engine monitor and all was fine.  I also checked the continutiy of the wire to the sensor and it was good.  I started the engine again and it started fine and seem to run fine, however, the OP did not kick in so I shut it down again


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