X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from zixvpm1.fdic.gov ([167.176.6.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTPS id 4434575 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:21:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=167.176.6.41; envelope-from=brogers@fdic.gov Received: from zixvpm1.fdic.gov (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.fdic.gov (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 505E89406FC for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.fdic.gov (mail.fdic.gov [10.30.1.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zixvpm1.fdic.gov (Proprietary) with ESMTP id C6B859406FA for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ([151.174.14.14]) by mail.fdic.gov with ESMTP id 5502665.2152804; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:20:51 -0400 Received: from DALEXC100P.PROD.FDIC.GOV ([172.26.81.152]) by dalexc001p.PROD.FDIC.GOV with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.7381); Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:20:50 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB3E5A.722E14F4" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:20:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1F44A251F397E444B05E240B8688AB7907C6FD9B@DALEXC100P.PROD.FDIC.GOV> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions Thread-Index: Acs+R1yhP7GjstPzSCCxUwWrzJLzqgAEoPQA References: From: "Rogers, Bob J." To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2010 22:20:50.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[730F9190:01CB3E5A] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3E5A.722E14F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I used the Jet-Hot 2000 coating, shown at this link. http://www.jet-hot.com/headercoatings.html I think that it is very effective to reduce heat in the engine compartment. =20 It is only applied at the Oklahoma City facility. =20 Bob ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions =20 Bob, Did you have your turbine housing and exhaust pipe coated with heat resistant coating and if so what and where ??............. =20 Thanks, =20 Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: "Rogers, Bob J." To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:57:22 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions Kelly, =20 There is one pretty good picture of the turbo installation (before radiator baffling) on our EAA Chapter 1246 website at: http://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10&pic=3D190. Because the oil drains from the turbo into a sump that is lower than the oil pan, I must use an electric pump to transfer the oil back into the engine oil pan. Attached is a view from the front, which shows the hoses and tubing from the turbo compressor to the intercooler and back to the intake manifold. =20 =20 Bob =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:02 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions =20 Bob, I am waiting on a clarification from "Turbonetics" as to what size turbine wheel would turn the least rpm as altitude increases.............I know the turbine housing a/r ratio is a big factor effecting turbine rpm as we climb but it is not clear to me how the turbine wheel diameter and trim factor in.............Air density lessens with altitude but I am not smart enough to know if the larger or smaller turbine wheel will have the highest rpm because of this factor as we climb ??......... =20 Perhaps I am being anal about this but and you are probably correct that that the=20 effect of a 3mm diameter difference between the two turbine wheels is slight and=20 probably inconsequential...........If any of our multi-talented group members would=20 like to shine some light on this please jump in here !!.......... =20 On another note do you happen to have any photos of your 13B/turbo installation during construction that you would care to share with the group ??..........You have a beautiful (to Rotorheads) and well thought out installation which from your report is working very well and I am sure others of the group would like to plagiarize.....<:) =20 Best Regards,=20 =20 Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: " Rogers, Bob J. " To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 11:49:06 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions Kelly,=20 =20 I do not know which wheel is in my turbo. I expect the larger wheel (68 mm) to turn a little more slowly, since it has a larger surface area to absorb the exhaust, but it should not make much difference. Either one should be OK. The Turbonetics people can probably explain the performance differences between the two wheel sizes. =20 Bob =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions =20 Bob, Thanks much for the info.................Just one more question..............Info from "Turbonetics" says the 1.15 a/r turbine housing is limited to the F1-65 mm or F1-68 mm turbine wheel....... Do you have info as to what turbine wheel was installed in your 60-1 turbo ??.............. =20 Thanks Again, =20 Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: " Rogers, Bob J. " To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 1:39:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions Kelly, =20 I limit my takeoff power to no more than 42 " of manifold pressure ("MP"), usually just 40" . At altitudes of 5,000 feet and above, I generally run no more than about 36 " MP (15 GPH) and 180 knots. Engine RPM is about 5,800. The turbo is capable of considerably more boost than this, but I have to watch engine water and oil temps at higher power settings. I do not want to run more than 200 degrees on oil or water and prefer 180 degrees. I can maintain these temps (even on hot days) with cowl flap settings from closed to full open as long as I keep the power settings at or below those described above. One day, I climbed to 11,000 feet and my GPS groundspeed (with a slight tailwind) was 213 knots. MP was 36", RPM 6,000. I have a 68" diameter x 84 pitch Prince P-tip fixed pitch prop coupled to the RWS 2.17/1 reduction unit. =20 Bob ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3E5A.722E14F4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, I used the Jet-Hot 2000 = coating, shown at this link. http://www.jet-hot.co= m/headercoatings.html  I think that it is very = effective to reduce heat in the engine compartment.

 

It is only applied at the Oklahoma City = facility.

 

Bob

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, = 2010 3:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbo Questions

 

Bob,

  Did you have your turbine housing and = exhaust pipe coated with heat resistant

coating and if so what and where = ??.............

 

Thanks,
 

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

 

 

From: "Rogers, Bob J." = <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, August 16, = 2010 10:57:22 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbo Questions

Kelly,

 

There is one pretty good picture of = the turbo installation (before radiator baffling) on our EAA Chapter 1246 = website at:  http://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10&pic=3D190.&= nbsp; Because the oil drains from the turbo into a sump that is lower than the = oil pan, I must use an electric pump to transfer the oil back into the = engine oil pan.  Attached is a view from the front, which shows the hoses and = tubing from the turbo compressor to the intercooler and back to the intake manifold. 

 

Bob

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Monday, August 16, = 2010 10:02 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbo Questions

 

Bob,

   I am waiting on a clarification  = from "Turbonetics" as to what size turbine = wheel

would turn the least rpm as altitude = increases.............I know the  turbine housing

a/r ratio is a big factor effecting turbine rpm = as we climb but it is not clear to me

how the turbine wheel diameter and trim factor in.............Air density lessens with

altitude but I am not smart enough to = know if the larger or smaller turbine wheel

will have the highest rpm because of this = factor as we climb ??.........

 

  Perhaps I am being anal about this but and you = are probably correct that that the

effect of a 3mm diameter difference between = the two turbine wheels is slight and

probably inconsequential...........If any of our multi-talented group members would

like to shine some light on this please jump in here !!..........

 

  On another note do you happen to have any = photos of your 13B/turbo installation

during construction that you would care to share with = the group ??..........You have

a beautiful (to Rotorheads) and well thought out installation which from your report

is working very well and I am sure others of the = group would like to plagiarize.....<:)

 

Best Regards, 

   

Kelly = Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

 

 

From: " Rogers, Bob J. " = <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, August 13, = 2010 11:49:06 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbo Questions

Kelly, =

 

I do not know which wheel is in my turbo.  I expect the larger wheel (68 mm) to turn a little more = slowly, since it has a larger surface area to absorb the exhaust, but it should = not make much difference.  Either one should be OK.  The = Turbonetics people can probably explain the performance differences between the two = wheel sizes.

 

Bob

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Thursday, August = 12, 2010 3:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbo Questions

 

Bob,

  Thanks much for the info.................Just = one more question..............Info from "Turbonetics"
says the 1.15 a/r turbine housing is limited to the F1-65 mm or = F1-68 mm turbine wheel.......

  Do you have info as to what turbine wheel = was installed in your 60-1 turbo = ??..............

 

Thanks Again,

 

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

 

 

From: " Rogers, Bob J. " = <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, August 12, = 2010 1:39:26 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbo Questions

Kelly,

 

I limit my takeoff power to no more = than 42 “ of manifold pressure = (“MP”), usually just 40” .  At altitudes of 5,000 feet and above, I generally run no more = than about 36 “ MP (15 GPH) and 180 knots.  Engine RPM is about = 5,800.  The turbo is capable of considerably more boost than this, but I have to = watch engine water and oil temps at higher power settings.  I do not want = to run more than 200 degrees on oil or water and prefer 180 degrees.  I = can maintain these temps (even on hot days) with cowl flap settings from = closed to full open as long as I keep the power settings at or below those = described above.  One day, I climbed to 11,000 feet and my GPS groundspeed = (with a slight tailwind) was 213 knots.  MP was 36”, RPM 6,000.  = I have a 68” diameter x 84 pitch Prince P-tip fixed pitch prop coupled to the RWS = 2.17/1 reduction unit.

 

Bob

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