X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4434354 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:04:00 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.97; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 37039 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Aug 2010 20:02:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1282075335; bh=lgC19MfIBr/2sdaSs3F6mJ/ZZuRImwL8PdwT+Fcp8sU=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZeQ5cB2nwV8J/Vjdyul1mIQjIPYwMiJb90GZXZc/wQEZkMlrCn0HFPCVbNZieBy1cugZpT3Sli/qCepNuD8gifpHE1mlxFrlt3fhUVKja+qKu/dodWosPxAtO1lt9gyhg4wb7jx7K7H184ArnxOnKWCE0jPPlIvth20XEXQTV7I= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QzgEhz+VHsi5Ck8IEm7/iVz57HIwf8RPiwwSdL+Y6BXVHiFx58eHGoeaTEqQg3ijDgqtmBaMzOViAnn0BqsZmmuwcVV0VXZ3U+tedTC/yVD8cknIfg7cGP+7LVntN5bHDVjg+NlNLbv7gY7KEemTSfQQ8yef3dNx+X5zvu13Cdo=; Message-ID: <840324.37020.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: OHCgb24VM1nie_I0BFL1j8C5Qz3gSMEM5jKkFZoXmp1.y.8 YybNTh6nLgGmuadL.wfc6XEakfi_popmHzfdaQU2_I.ZEjvL323Qy86ZdL4f uP5BbmbOBlsDFjsUs7MQeH9OimpxMalVaJzQJ5alG5.Nt3Pavx0yJAZFnOwm 38tNFZMUFQSqaUFGb95ZVUDUW.IAmXB9tPTLk46JDWGUzLl9dtA9UKsw_cIy RtzVfwoL.6GbrlkFpa3mfpaLq.iGV2S5nc6i1u8NphHGmMHW13D0a3A9PDxw pLpeHsYw1tKBrVTxR2WFjOHOMYLuaggNwF1eQh6ds7q9X0uV3HpGTybLda1y yVYCRzRd3Uf0pv7KBtgnOjnZGwrCIpKxwpW3v2tZnEi4r Received: from [208.114.34.209] by web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:02:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Turbo Questions To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1498216463-1282075335=:37020" --0-1498216463-1282075335=:37020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob,=0A=C2=A0 Did you have your turbine housing=C2=A0and exhaust pipe coate= d with heat resistant=0Acoating and if so what and where ??.............=0A= =0AThanks,=0A=C2=A0Kelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD= 1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________= __________________=0AFrom: "Rogers, Bob J." =0ATo: Rotary= motors in aircraft =0ASent: Mon, August 16, 2= 010 10:57:22 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A=0A=0AKelly,= =0A=C2=A0=0AThere is one pretty good picture of the turbo installation (bef= ore radiator =0Abaffling) on our EAA Chapter 1246 website at:=C2=A0 =0Ahttp= ://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10&pic=3D190.=C2=A0 Beca= use the =0Aoil drains from the turbo into a sump that is lower than the oil= pan, I must use =0Aan electric pump to transfer the oil back into the engi= ne oil pan.=C2=A0 Attached is =0Aa view from the front, which shows the hos= es and tubing from the turbo =0Acompressor to the intercooler and back to t= he intake manifold.=C2=A0 =0A=0A=C2=A0=0ABob=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A________________= ________________=0A=0AFrom:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net] On Behalf Of =0AKelly Troyer=0ASent: Monday, August 16, 2010= 10:02 AM=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo = Questions=0A=C2=A0=0ABob,=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am waiting on a clarification=C2= =A0 from "Turbonetics" as to what size turbine =0Awheel=0Awould=C2=A0turn t= he least rpm as altitude increases.............I know the =C2=A0turbine =0A= housing=0Aa/r ratio is a big factor effecting turbine rpm as=C2=A0we climb = but it is not clear =0Ato me=0Ahow=C2=A0the turbine wheel diameter and trim= factor in.............Air density =0Alessens with=0Aaltitude but=C2=A0I am= not smart enough to know=C2=A0if the larger or smaller turbine =0Awheel=0A= will have the highest rpm because of this factor=C2=A0as we climb ??.......= ..=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0 Perhaps I am being anal about this but and you are pro= bably correct that that =0Athe =0A=0Aeffect of=C2=A0a 3mm diameter=C2=A0dif= ference between the two turbine wheels is slight and =0A=0Aprobably inconse= quential...........If any of our multi-talented group members =0Awould =0A= =0Alike to shine some light on this please jump in here !!..........=0A=C2= =A0=0A=C2=A0 On another note do you happen to have any photos of your 13B/t= urbo =0Ainstallation=0Aduring construction that you would care to share wit= h the group ??..........You =0Ahave=0Aa beautiful (to Rotorheads) and well = thought out installation which from your =0Areport=0Ais working very well a= nd=C2=A0I am sure others of the group would like to =0Aplagiarize.....<:)= =0A=C2=A0=0ABest Regards,=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"Dyke= Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Ma= nifold=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:" = Rogers, Bob J. " =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Fri, August 13, 2010 11:49:06 AM=0ASubject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0AKelly, =0A=C2=A0=0AI do not know which wh= eel is in my turbo.=C2=A0 I expect the larger wheel (68 mm) to =0Aturn a li= ttle more slowly, since it has a larger surface area to absorb the =0Aexhau= st, but it should not make much difference.=C2=A0 Either one should be OK.= =C2=A0 The =0ATurbonetics people can probably explain the performance diffe= rences between the =0Atwo wheel sizes.=0A=C2=A0=0ABob=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A_______= _________________________=0A=0AFrom:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0AKelly Troyer=0ASent: Thursday, Augu= st 12, 2010 3:44 PM=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Turbo Questions=0A=C2=A0=0ABob,=0A=C2=A0 Thanks much for the info......= ...........Just one more =0Aquestion..............Info from "Turbonetics"= =0Asays the 1.15=C2=A0a/r turbine housing is limited to the F1-65 mm or F1-= 68 mm turbine =0Awheel.......=0A=C2=A0 Do you have info as to what=C2=A0tur= bine wheel was installed in your 60-1 turbo =0A??..............=0A=C2=A0=0A= Thanks Again,=0A=C2=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"R= WS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A= =0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:" Rogers, Bob J. " =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASe= nt: Thu, August 12, 2010 1:39:26 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questi= ons=0AKelly,=0A=C2=A0=0AI limit my takeoff power to no more than 42 =E2=80= =9C of manifold pressure (=E2=80=9CMP=E2=80=9D), =0Ausually just 40=E2=80= =9D .=C2=A0 At altitudes of 5,000 feet and above, I generally run no =0Amor= e than about 36 =E2=80=9C MP (15 GPH) and 180 knots.=C2=A0 Engine RPM is ab= out 5,800.=C2=A0 The =0Aturbo is capable of considerably more boost than th= is, but I have to watch =0Aengine water and oil temps at higher power setti= ngs.=C2=A0 I do not want to run more =0Athan 200 degrees on oil or water an= d prefer 180 degrees.=C2=A0 I can maintain these =0Atemps (even on hot days= ) with cowl flap settings from closed to full open as =0Along as I keep the= power settings at or below those described above.=C2=A0 One day, I =0Aclim= bed to 11,000 feet and my GPS groundspeed (with a slight tailwind) was 213 = =0Aknots.=C2=A0 MP was 36=E2=80=9D, RPM 6,000.=C2=A0 I have a 68=E2=80=9D d= iameter x 84 pitch Prince P-tip =0Afixed pitch prop coupled to the RWS 2.17= /1 reduction unit.=0A=C2=A0=0ABob --0-1498216463-1282075335=:37020 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Bob,
=0A
  Did you have your turbine = housing and exhaust pipe coated with heat resistant
=0A
coati= ng and if so what and where ??.............
=0A
 
=0AThanks,
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
= "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

= =0A
=0A
=0AFrom: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@= FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:57:22 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turb= o Questions

=0A=0A=0A
=0A

Kelly,

=0A

&nbs= p;

=0A

= There is one pretty good picture of the turbo installation (before radiator= baffling) on our EAA Chapter 1246 website at:  http://ww= w.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10&pic=3D190. = Because the oil drains from the turbo into a sump that is lower tha= n the oil pan, I must use an electric pump to transfer the oil back into th= e engine oil pan.  Attached is a view from the front, whi= ch shows the hoses and tubing from the turbo compressor to the intercooler = and back to the intake manifold. 

=0A 

= =0A

Bob=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancair= online.net] On Behalf Of Ke= lly Troyer
Sent: Monday,= August 16, 2010 10:02 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions

=0A=

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

Bob,

=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A

would turn the least rpm as altitude increases............= .I know the  turbine housing

=0A
=0A

a/r ratio is a big factor effecting turbine rpm as = we climb but it is not clear to me

=0A
=0A

how the turbine wheel diameter and trim factor in.= ............Air density lessens with

=0A
=0A

altitude but I am not smart enough to know = if the larger or smaller turbine wheel

=0A
=0Awill have the highest rpm because of this factor&nb= sp;as we climb ??.........

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

<= FONT size=3D3 face=3DArial>  Perhaps I am being anal about this but and you are probably corr= ect that that the

=0A
=0A

<= FONT size=3D3 face=3DArial>effect of a 3mm diameter difference between the two turbine w= heels is slight and

=0A
=0A

probably inconsequential...........If any of our multi-talented group= members would

=0A
=0A

like to shine some light on this please jump in here !!..........

=0A
=0A

=  

=0A
=0A

  On another note do you h= appen to have any photos of your 13B/turbo installation

=0A
=0A

during construction that you would= care to share with the group ??..........You have

= =0A
=0A

a beautiful (to Rotorheads) and well t= hought out installation which from your report

=0A=0A

is working very well and I am sure oth= ers of the group would like to plagiarize.....<:)

=0A
=0A

 

=0A=0A

Best Regards, 

= =0A
=0A

   

=0A

Kelly Troyer<= /STRONG>
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

&n= bsp;

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: " Rogers, = Bob J. " <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
T= o: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
Sent: Fri, August 13, 2= 010 11:49:06 AM
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions

=0A
=0A

Kelly,

=0A

 

=0A

I do not know which wheel i= s in my turbo.  I expect the larger wheel (68 mm) to turn a little mor= e slowly, since it has a larger surface area to absorb the exhaust, but it = should not make much difference.  Either one should be OK.  The T= urbonetics people can probably explain the performance differences between = the two wheel sizes.

=0A

 

=0A

Bob

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:44 PM
= To: Rotary motors in aircraft<= BR>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Turbo Questions

=0A

 =

=0A
=0A
=0A

Bob,<= /P>

=0A
=0A

  Thanks much for the in= fo.................Just one more question..............Info from "Turboneti= cs"
says the 1.15 a/r turbine housing is limited to the F1-65 mm or= F1-68 mm turbine wheel.......

=0A
=0A

  Do you have info as to what turbine wheel was= installed in your 60-1 turbo ??..............

=0A=0A

 

=0A
=0AThanks Again,

=0A
=0A

 

=0A

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: " Rogers, Bob J. " <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancairon= line.net>
Sent: Thu, = August 12, 2010 1:39:26 PM
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions

=0A

Kelly,

=0A

 

=0A

I limit my takeoff power t= o no more than 42 =E2=80=9C of manifold pressure= (=E2=80=9CMP=E2=80=9D), usually just 40=E2=80=9D .  At altitudes of 5= ,000 feet and above, I generally run no more than about 36 =E2=80=9C MP (15= GPH) and 180 knots.  Engine RPM is about 5,800.  The turbo is ca= pable of considerably more boost than this, but I have to watch engine wate= r and oil temps at higher power settings.  I do not want to run more t= han 200 degrees on oil or water and prefer 180 degrees.  I can maintai= n these temps (even on hot days) with cowl flap settings from closed to ful= l open as long as I keep the power settings at or below those described abo= ve.  One day, I climbed to 11,000 feet and my GPS groundspeed (with a = slight tailwind) was 213 knots.  MP was 36=E2=80=9D, RPM 6,000.  = I have a 68=E2=80=9D diameter x 84 pitch Prince P-tip fixed pitch prop coupled to the RWS 2.17/1 reduction unit.

=0A

 = ;

=0A

B= ob

<= /DIV> --0-1498216463-1282075335=:37020--