X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com ([66.147.249.253] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4429073 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:13:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.147.249.253; envelope-from=jslade@canardaviation.com Received: (qmail 19145 invoked by uid 0); 13 Aug 2010 02:13:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host296.hostmonster.com) (66.147.240.96) by oproxy1.bluehost.com.bluehost.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2010 02:13:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=canardaviation.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=sJ6gMPHFa1RhYsCHRd4lrCqp5/DaM2L17VBZvvome0DOFxmzSgOzWgyDlxB5jbXWaPNQtCMoFpkWiVuqT42PVdx2YgTHhP2iZZYBJUegYq2Y6Y2xB/Og+gGiAwRV5WJu; Received: from c-75-69-1-4.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([75.69.1.4] helo=[192.168.1.102]) by host296.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjjlS-0007sx-NX for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:12:59 -0600 Message-ID: <4C64AA28.3030705@canardaviation.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:12:56 -0400 From: John Slade Reply-To: jslade@canardaviation.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040705010000040803010107" X-Identified-User: {3339:host296.hostmonster.com:instanu1:canardaviation.com} {sentby:smtp auth 75.69.1.4 authed with jslade+canardaviation.com} This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040705010000040803010107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Do you know which turbine wheel is in your TO4-50.... No, I don't, but the guys at AGP Turbocharges will tell you. http://www.agpturbo.com On 8/12/2010 8:05 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > John, > Good to hear from you and that your turbo installation is holding > up under your > heavy hand !!.........<:) > Have the same question for you as Bob............Do you know which > turbine > wheel is in your TO4-50..........Info I received from "Turbonetics" > said that the > 1.15 a/r housing was limited to the F1-65 mm or F1-68 mm wheel but I > failed > to ask what the choices were for the .96 a/r housing............. > I hope some of this real world info from Bob and John is helpful to > others of > the group that may be considering turboing their 13B or > Renesis...........These > guys plus a few others (Dave Leonard and Steve Brooks) are > turboed........... > Dave is flying a T3/T4 hybrid if I recall correctly.........Jump in > here Dave.......... > Steve if you are have time from flying can you refresh us on the > specifics of > your current turbocharger ??...........Model, compressor trim, turbine > a/r, boost > numbers , rpm's , altitude , etc............ > "Inquiring minds want to know" > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* John Slade > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thu, August 12, 2010 5:09:38 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions > > Hi Kelly, > Yes, I believe you have my installation details correct. I also have > the big-shaft bearings and wet housings. I choose the .96 AR because > I'm not expecting to fly much above 12,000'. I was told that this was > good to 18,000 k . > I'm showing about 44 MAP (i.e. approx 7PSI of boost) on take-off (when > I choose to use it all, which I rarely do). > In cruise at around 5500 rpm at 10000ft I show about 34MAP, which is > just a bit above normalized. I have boosted to about 42 at altitude, > but that got me to VNE straight & level, so I throttled back and > considered that the limit. > > I have about 80hrs on the T04 now with no issues, and I'm not > typically gentle with my toys. By contrast, I blew up three of the > stock turbos in 40 hours. Admittedly one of the failures was the > result of deliberate failure mode testing. I'd been told that, while > cheap, the stock turbo wasn't up to the application, and I wanted to > know if this was true. It was. I took her to 10,000' above the field > and gave it full throttle - about 46 MAP. My theory was that I wanted > to know where the limits were over a field in good weather, not later > somewhere over Mississippi at night. By the way, the turbonetics > manual suggests that you do about 1.5 hours gentle driving before - > direct quote - "beating the crap out of it". I get the impression that > they're built to withstand exactly that. > > Hope this helps. > Regards, > John > > On 8/12/2010 12:54 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >> Bob, >> Now that I presume you have put several hours on your 13B/Turbo >> installation I would >> like to ask a few performance questions............I have been going >> through compressor >> maps from "Turbonetics" and was wondering what boost numbers you are >> seeing at >> various rpm's and altitudes from your 60-1 turbo.............I am >> looking at the TO-4E with >> trims from 50 to 60 and of course your 60-1.............Several of >> these turbo's would do >> a reasonable job but I would prefer to chose one that will be most >> efficient at about a >> maximum 5 lbs or less boost (1.35 pressure ratio) and at the lowest >> turbine rpm.......... >> I probably will not find one that is perfect but will try to pick >> the best compromise from >> the choices.............John Slade if you read this would appreciate >> some of the same >> info on your TO4E-50 as I believe you have the most hours on this >> Turbo........... >> Bob I realize that you have the 1.15 a/r turbine housing (which I >> lean toward to avoid >> over-speed at oxygen altitude) and John you have the .96 a/r housing >> for moderate >> altitude.............Another factor is if the propeller pitch is >> fixed or adjustable.........I have >> a in-flight adjust "IVO" as does John Slade and I do not recall >> what you have Bob......... >> Thanks in Advance, >> Kelly Troyer >> "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* "Rogers, Bob J." >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Fri, April 23, 2010 1:49:34 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area >> >> My turbo is a Turbonetics 60-1 compressor trim, with 1.15 A/R divided >> tang, oil to bearings, and water cooled. See the following link. >> >> http://www.agpturbo.com/product.php?productid=16138&cat=252&page=1 or >> the attached .pdf file (if it can be transmitted). >> >> Bob >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On Behalf Of *Kelly Troyer >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area >> >> Bob, >> >> Curious as to the make,model, Compressor Trim and A/R of the >> >> Turbine housing of your Turbo ??................... >> >> -- >> Kelly Troyer >> "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> > --------------040705010000040803010107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Do you know which turbine wheel is in your TO4-50....
No, I don't, but the guys at AGP Turbocharges will tell you.
http://www.agpturbo.com


On 8/12/2010 8:05 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
 
John,
   Good to hear from you and that your turbo installation is holding up under your
heavy hand !!.........<:)
 
   Have the same question for you as Bob............Do you know which turbine
wheel is in your TO4-50..........Info I received from "Turbonetics" said that the
1.15 a/r housing was limited to the F1-65 mm or F1-68 mm  wheel but I failed
to ask what the choices were for the .96 a/r housing.............
 
   I hope some of this real world info from Bob and John is helpful to others of
the group that may be considering turboing their 13B or Renesis...........These
guys plus a few others (Dave Leonard and Steve Brooks) are turboed...........
Dave is flying a T3/T4 hybrid if I recall correctly.........Jump in here Dave..........
 
  Steve if you are have time from flying can you refresh us on the specifics of
your current turbocharger ??...........Model, compressor trim, turbine a/r, boost  
numbers , rpm's , altitude , etc............
 
"Inquiring minds want to know"
 
  
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


From: John Slade <jslade@canardaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 5:09:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions

Hi Kelly,
Yes, I believe you have my installation details correct. I also have the big-shaft bearings and wet housings. I choose the .96 AR because I'm not expecting to fly much above 12,000'. I was told that this was good to 18,000 k . 
I'm showing about 44 MAP (i.e. approx 7PSI of boost) on take-off (when I choose to use it all, which I rarely do).
In cruise at around 5500 rpm at 10000ft I show about 34MAP, which is just a bit above normalized. I have boosted to about 42 at altitude, but that got me to VNE straight & level, so I throttled back and considered that the limit.

I have about 80hrs on the T04 now with no issues, and I'm not typically gentle with my toys. By contrast, I blew up three of the stock turbos in 40 hours. Admittedly one of the failures was the result of deliberate failure mode testing. I'd been told that, while cheap, the stock turbo wasn't up to the application, and I wanted to know if this was true. It was.  I took her to 10,000' above the field and gave it full throttle - about 46 MAP. My theory was that I wanted to know where the limits were over a field in good weather, not later somewhere over Mississippi at night. By the way, the turbonetics manual suggests that you do about 1.5 hours gentle driving before - direct quote - "beating the crap out of it". I get the impression that they're built to withstand exactly that.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
John

On 8/12/2010 12:54 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
Bob,
 
   Now that I presume you have put several hours on your 13B/Turbo installation I would
like to ask a few performance questions............I have been going through compressor
maps from "Turbonetics" and was wondering what boost numbers you are seeing at 
various rpm's and altitudes from your 60-1 turbo.............I am looking at the TO-4E with
trims from 50 to 60 and of course your 60-1.............Several of these turbo's would do
a reasonable job but I would prefer to chose one that will be most efficient at  about a
maximum 5 lbs or less boost (1.35 pressure ratio) and at the lowest turbine rpm..........
 
  I probably will not find one that is perfect but will try to pick the best compromise from
the choices.............John Slade if you read this would appreciate some of the same
info on your TO4E-50 as I believe you have the most hours on this Turbo...........
 
  Bob I realize that you have the 1.15 a/r turbine housing (which I lean toward to avoid
over-speed at oxygen altitude)  and John you have the .96 a/r housing for moderate
altitude.............Another factor is if the propeller pitch is fixed or adjustable.........I have
a in-flight adjust "IVO" as does John Slade and I do not recall what you have Bob.........
 
Thanks in Advance,    
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, April 23, 2010 1:49:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area

My turbo is a Turbonetics 60-1 compressor trim, with 1.15 A/R divided tang, oil to bearings, and water cooled.  See the following link.

 

http://www.agpturbo.com/product.php?productid=16138&cat=252&page=1  or the attached .pdf file (if it can be transmitted). 

 

Bob

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area

 

Bob,

  Curious as to the make,model, Compressor Trim and A/R of  the

Turbine housing of your Turbo ??...................

 

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


 



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