X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4428993 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:06:21 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.105; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 1391 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Aug 2010 00:05:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1281657945; bh=3ZLlF28zwePfFkuri0sPyvrv8QDePvAAAy7/b3oj8ZA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DiGF4QLD9WdMzDkzkY9+XIJqoeWI73Idt/qYLnDXpihvGYudASIxbchM9FGRCB6BAGUQGdojBzoKcb17qLJhuO/TftqAabh2YuPvCj3h1IZXdAG/hELIvqyHL664USYVPVk/HCSpeirxAkcxLPcPBPLXIE+t3220NmOQo+MxgFY= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=2yyguG9HGdPqmc6C5rXw51LOG4FEx2AHtvhMnZ0SLO5BZcfllTYoS+i89yexNSVWlnhX+MzJYyA41gafQ4o7R1Opu7rELJX30edc3m738eT7lKJj/bKCLw0Qqa8uDjWWSXbxE+Lb3VRwgj102rWKtrkVGSrvmHLZUz3sfmF1JzY=; Message-ID: <549207.90202.qm@web83905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: NmGgcoQVM1kF_tQ2eAH5BzIYdCTTtdWK1lwhT.0tp8fEZaU m1_e8IQjq.PshTjMqKMbLzEj8d1ygi.lhAoKs7UsCKFGzhimiaMBzeiMzvQy Znt58Whf1MBd9lITjQ_cOhUKqilJ5PXeTZ1b9oECrY7jh7RrCp2hfXPuYiyc QxwdlS7J.w0iD185ISI2IJaPuEuAAVtNkBooRYYIDlyRrpfKQPKWs0Ok.Zx4 cGo_hdBetXUlvq4oN6rT5wgb7GpUeIHNXJ8TiaM80UzhWR5BgmmisK0T9ou. EmLTDqyYM3qWCrNgaLcc5JyNMk92Mjc2GFFfP1seA.GmjKXgBSIp4gwb8KjO FZ62VMZGhGzrTmsKosfKuBHh.LnGptLEORuAaTdFo4Fuj Received: from [208.114.45.62] by web83905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:05:45 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:05:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1860638191-1281657945=:90202" --0-1860638191-1281657945=:90202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0AJohn,=0A=A0=A0 Good to hear from you and that your turbo installation= is holding up under =0Ayour =0A=0Aheavy hand !!.........<:)=0A=0A=A0=A0 Ha= ve the same question for you as Bob............Do you know which turbine=0A= wheel is in your TO4-50..........Info=A0I received from "Turbonetics" said = that =0Athe=0A1.15 a/r housing was limited to the F1-65 mm or F1-68 mm=A0 w= heel but I failed=0Ato ask what the choices were for the .96 a/r housing...= ..........=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0I hope some of this real world info from Bob and J= ohn is helpful to others of=0Athe group that may be considering turboing th= eir 13B or Renesis...........These=0Aguys plus a few others (Dave Leonard a= nd Steve Brooks) are turboed...........=0ADave is flying a T3/T4 hybrid if = I recall correctly.........Jump in here =0ADave..........=0A=0A=A0=A0Steve = if you are have time from flying can you refresh us on the specifics of =0A= your current turbocharger ??...........Model, compressor trim, turbine a/r,= =0Aboost=A0=A0=0Anumbers , rpm's , altitude ,=A0etc............=0A=0A"Inqu= iring minds want to know"=0A=0A=A0=A0Kelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY= Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Slade =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A= Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 5:09:38 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Ques= tions=0A=0AHi Kelly,=0AYes, I believe you have my installation details corr= ect. I also have the =0Abig-shaft bearings and wet housings. I choose the .= 96 AR because I'm not =0Aexpecting to fly much above 12,000'. I was told th= at this was good to 18,000=A0k =0A.=A0=0AI'm showing about 44 MAP (i.e. app= rox 7PSI of boost) on take-off (when I choose =0Ato use it all, which I rar= ely do).=0AIn cruise at around 5500 rpm at 10000ft I show about 34MAP, whic= h is just a bit =0Aabove normalized. I have boosted to about 42 at altitude= , but that got me to VNE =0Astraight & level, so I throttled back and consi= dered that the limit.=0A=0AI have about 80hrs on the T04 now with no issues= , and I'm not typically gentle =0Awith my toys. By contrast, I blew up thre= e of the stock turbos in 40 hours. =0AAdmittedly one of the failures was th= e result of deliberate failure mode =0Atesting. I'd been told that, while c= heap, the stock turbo wasn't up to the =0Aapplication, and I wanted to know= if this was true. It was.=A0 I took her to =0A10,000' above the field and = gave it full throttle - about 46 MAP. My theory was =0Athat I wanted to kno= w where the limits were over a field in good weather, not =0Alater somewher= e over Mississippi at night. By the way, the turbonetics manual =0Asuggests= that you do about 1.5 hours gentle driving before - direct quote - =0A"bea= ting the crap out of it". I get the impression that they're built to =0Awit= hstand exactly that.=0A=0AHope this helps.=0ARegards,=0AJohn=0A=0AOn 8/12/2= 010 12:54 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: =0ABob,=0A>=0A>=A0=A0 Now that I presume = you have put several hours on your 13B/Turbo installation =0A>I would=0A>li= ke to ask a few performance=A0questions............I have been going throug= h =0A>compressor=0A>maps from "Turbonetics" and was wondering what boost nu= mbers you are seeing at=A0=0A>various rpm's and altitudes from your 60-1 tu= rbo.............I am looking at =0A>the=A0TO-4E with=0A>trims from 50 to 60= and of course your 60-1.............Several of these turbo's =0A>would do= =0A>a reasonable job but=A0I would prefer to chose one that will=A0be most = efficient at=A0 =0A>about a=0A>maximum 5 lbs or less boost (1.35 pressure r= atio) and at the lowest turbine =0A>rpm..........=0A>=0A>=A0 I probably wil= l not find one that is perfect but will try to pick the best =0A>compromise= from=0A>the choices.............John Slade if you read this would=A0apprec= iate some of the =0A>same=0A>info on your TO4E-50 as=A0I believe you have t= he most hours on this =0A>Turbo...........=0A>=0A>=A0 Bob I realize that yo= u have the 1.15=A0a/r turbine housing (which I lean toward =0A>to avoid=0A>= over-speed at oxygen=A0altitude)=A0=A0and John you have the .96 a/r housing= =0A>for=A0moderate=0A>altitude.............Another factor is=A0if the prop= eller pitch=A0is fixed or =0A>adjustable.........I have=0A>a in-flight adju= st "IVO" as does John Slade and=A0I do not recall what=A0you have =0A>Bob..= .......=0A>=0A>Thanks in Advance,=A0=A0=A0=A0=0A>=A0Kelly Troyer=0A>"Dyke D= elta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Ma= nifold =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Rog= ers, Bob J." =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Fri, April 23, 2010 1:49:34 PM=0A>Subject: [Fl= yRotary] Re: Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area=0A>=0A>=0A>My turbo is a= Turbonetics 60-1 compressor trim, with 1.15 A/R divided tang, oil =0A>to b= earings, and water cooled.=A0 See the following link.=0A>=A0=0A>http://www.= agpturbo.com/product.php?productid=3D16138&cat=3D252&page=3D1=A0 or the =0A= >attached .pdf file (if it can be transmitted).=A0 =0A>=0A>=A0=0A>Bob=0A>= =A0=0A>=A0=0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>From:Rotary motors = in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>Kelly Tro= yer=0A>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in airc= raft=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area=0A>=A0= =0A>Bob,=0A>=A0 Curious as to the make,model, Compressor Trim and A/R of=A0= the=0A>Turbine housing of your Turbo ??...................=0A>=A0=0A>--=0A= >Kelly Troyer =0A>"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine =0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A= >"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=A0=0A --0-1860638191-1281657945=:90202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
 
=0A
John,
=0A
  = Good to hear from you and that your turbo installation is holding up under= your
=0A
heavy hand !!.........<:)
=0A
 
= =0A
   Have the same question for you as Bob............Do yo= u know which turbine
=0A
wheel is in your TO4-50..........Info&nbs= p;I received from "Turbonetics" said that the
=0A
1.15 a/r housing= was limited to the F1-65 mm or F1-68 mm  wheel but I failed
=0A<= DIV>to ask what the choices were for the .96 a/r housing.............
= =0A
 
=0A
   I hope some of this real worl= d info from Bob and John is helpful to others of
=0A
the group tha= t may be considering turboing their 13B or Renesis...........These
=0A=
guys plus a few others (Dave Leonard and Steve Brooks) are turboed....= .......
=0A
Dave is flying a T3/T4 hybrid if I recall correctly...= ......Jump in here Dave..........
=0A
 
=0A
 &n= bsp;Steve if you are have time from flying can you refresh us on the specif= ics of=0A
your current turbocharger ??...........Model, compressor trim= , turbine a/r, boost  
=0A
numbers , rpm's , altitude ,&= nbsp;etc............
=0A
 
=0A
"Inquiring minds want= to know"
=0A
 
=0A
  
Kelly Tr= oyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_B= ackplate/Oil Manifold =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom:<= /SPAN> John Slade <jslade@canardaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 5:09:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions

Hi Ke= lly,
Yes, I believe you have my installation details correct. I also hav= e the big-shaft bearings and wet housings. I choose the .96 AR because I'm = not expecting to fly much above 12,000'. I was told that this was good to 1= 8,000 k . 
I'm showing about 44 MAP (i.e. approx 7PSI of boost= ) on take-off (when I choose to use it all, which I rarely do).
In cruis= e at around 5500 rpm at 10000ft I show about 34MAP, which is just a bit abo= ve normalized. I have boosted to about 42 at altitude, but that got me to V= NE straight & level, so I throttled back and considered that the limit.

I have about 80hrs on= the T04 now with no issues, and I'm not typically gentle with my toys. By = contrast, I blew up three of the stock turbos in 40 hours. Admittedly one o= f the failures was the result of deliberate failure mode testing. I'd been = told that, while cheap, the stock turbo wasn't up to the application, and I= wanted to know if this was true. It was.  I took her to 10,000' above= the field and gave it full throttle - about 46 MAP. My theory was that I w= anted to know where the limits were over a field in good weather, not later= somewhere over Mississippi at night. By the way, the turbonetics manual su= ggests that you do about 1.5 hours gentle driving before - direct quote - "= beating the crap out of it". I get the impression that they're built to wit= hstand exactly that.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
John

On = 8/12/2010 12:54 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: =0A
=0A=0A<= DIV>Bob,
=0A
 
=0A
   Now that I presume you have put several hours on your 13B= /Turbo installation I would
=0A
like to ask = a few performance questions............I have been going through compr= essor
=0A
maps from "Turbonetics" and was wo= ndering what boost numbers you are seeing at 
=0A
various rpm's and altitudes from your 60-1 turbo.............I a= m looking at the TO-4E with
=0A
trims f= rom 50 to 60 and of course your 60-1.............Several of these turbo's w= ould do
=0A
a reasonable job but I woul= d prefer to chose one that will be most efficient at  about a
=0A
maximum 5 lbs or less= boost (1.35 pressure ratio) and at the lowest turbine rpm..........=
=0A
 
=0A
  I probably will not= find one that is perfect but will try to pick the best compromise from
=0A
the choices.............John Slade if you r= ead this would appreciate some of the same
=0A
info on your TO4E-50 as I believe you have the most hours on t= his Turbo...........
=0A
 
=0A
  Bob I realize that you have the 1.15 a/r turbine housing (whic= h I lean toward to avoid
=0A
over-speed at o= xygen altitude)  and John you have the= .96 a/r housing for moderate
=0A
altit= ude.............Another factor is if the propeller pitch is fixed= or adjustable.........I have
=0A
a in-fligh= t adjust "IVO" as does John Slade and I do not recall what you ha= ve Bob.........
=0A
 
=0A
Than= ks in Advance,    
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"R= WS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov><= /A>
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, April 23, 2010 1:49:34 PM
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary= engine aircraft in Dallas area

=0A=0A=0A
=0A

My turbo is a Turbonetics 60-1 compressor t= rim, with 1.15 A/R divided tang, oil to bearings, and water cooled.&n= bsp; See the following link.

=0A

 

=0A

http://www.agpturbo.com/product.php?pr= oductid=3D16138&cat=3D252&page=3D1  or the attach= ed .pdf file (if it can be transmitted).  <= /P>=0A

 

=0A

Bob

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fly= rotary@lancaironline.net] On Behal= f Of Kelly Troyer
Sent:<= /SPAN> Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary engine aircraft in D= allas area

=0A

 =

=0A
=0A

Bob,

=0A
=0A

  Curious as to the make,model, Compressor Trim and A/R= of  the

=0A
=0A

Turbine h= ousing of your Turbo ??...................

=0A
= =0A

 

=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"= _RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


=0A
=0A

 


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