X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com ([66.147.249.253] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4428831 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:10:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.147.249.253; envelope-from=jslade@canardaviation.com Received: (qmail 25124 invoked by uid 0); 12 Aug 2010 22:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host296.hostmonster.com) (66.147.240.96) by oproxy1.bluehost.com.bluehost.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2010 22:10:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=canardaviation.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=qQTmZYIQ+cX+RirJgovdaJgujpo97imccRp88NlmewiToHrJcjQtEdoHPr8Jq/OWwEFBxbQ8Tn4CH9aJRVuU9Bs965P2QQKGWJoljzYXzveLc4oAotAZ5k2rbk7kKgsj; Received: from c-75-69-1-4.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([75.69.1.4] helo=[192.168.1.102]) by host296.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjfyB-0000Yf-FR for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:09:51 -0600 Message-ID: <4C647122.70801@canardaviation.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:09:38 -0400 From: John Slade Reply-To: jslade@canardaviation.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Turbo Questions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020901030005040906050205" X-Identified-User: {3339:host296.hostmonster.com:instanu1:canardaviation.com} {sentby:smtp auth 75.69.1.4 authed with jslade+canardaviation.com} This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020901030005040906050205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kelly, Yes, I believe you have my installation details correct. I also have the big-shaft bearings and wet housings. I choose the .96 AR because I'm not expecting to fly much above 12,000'. I was told that this was I'm showing about 44 MAP (i.e. approx 7PSI of boost) on take-off (when I choose to use it all, which I rarely do). In cruise at around 5500 rpm at 10000ft I show about 34MAP, which is just a bit above normalized. I have boosted to about 42 at altitude, but that got me to VNE straight & level, so I throttled back and considered that the limit. I have about 80hrs on the T04 now with no issues, and I'm not typically gentle with my toys. By contrast, I blew up three of the stock turbos in 40 hours. Admittedly one of the failures was the result of deliberate failure mode testing. I'd been told that, while cheap, the stock turbo wasn't up to the application, and I wanted to know if this was true. It was. I took her to 10,000' above the field and gave it full throttle - about 46 MAP. My theory was that I wanted to know where the limits were over a field in good weather, not later somewhere over Mississippi at night. By the way, the turbonetics manual suggests that you do about 1.5 hours gentle driving before - direct quote - "beating the crap out of it". I get the impression that they're built to withstand exactly that. Hope this helps. Regards, John On 8/12/2010 12:54 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Bob, > Now that I presume you have put several hours on your 13B/Turbo > installation I would > like to ask a few performance questions............I have been going > through compressor > maps from "Turbonetics" and was wondering what boost numbers you are > seeing at > various rpm's and altitudes from your 60-1 turbo.............I am > looking at the TO-4E with > trims from 50 to 60 and of course your 60-1.............Several of > these turbo's would do > a reasonable job but I would prefer to chose one that will be most > efficient at about a > maximum 5 lbs or less boost (1.35 pressure ratio) and at the lowest > turbine rpm.......... > I probably will not find one that is perfect but will try to pick > the best compromise from > the choices.............John Slade if you read this would appreceiate > some of the same > info on your TO4E-50 as I believe you have the most hours on this > Turbo........... > Bob I realize that you have the 1.15 a/r turbine housing (which I > lean toward to avoid > overspeed at oxygen altitude) and John you have the .96 a/r housing > for moderate > altitude.............Another factor is if the propeller pitch is fixed > or adjustable.........I have > a inflight adjust "IVO" as does John Slade and I do not recall > what you have Bob......... > Thanks in Advance, > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Rogers, Bob J." > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Fri, April 23, 2010 1:49:34 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area > > My turbo is a Turbonetics 60-1 compressor trim, with 1.15 A/R divided > tang, oil to bearings, and water cooled. See the following link. > > http://www.agpturbo.com/product.php?productid=16138&cat=252&page=1 or > the attached .pdf file (if it can be transmitted). > > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Kelly Troyer > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area > > Bob, > > Curious as to the make,model, Compressor Trim and A/R of the > > Turbine housing of your Turbo ??................... > > -- > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > --------------020901030005040906050205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kelly,
Yes, I believe you have my installation details correct. I also have the big-shaft bearings and wet housings. I choose the .96 AR because I'm not expecting to fly much above 12,000'. I was told that this was
I'm showing about 44 MAP (i.e. approx 7PSI of boost) on take-off (when I choose to use it all, which I rarely do).
In cruise at around 5500 rpm at 10000ft I show about 34MAP, which is just a bit above normalized. I have boosted to about 42 at altitude, but that got me to VNE straight & level, so I throttled back and considered that the limit.

I have about 80hrs on the T04 now with no issues, and I'm not typically gentle with my toys. By contrast, I blew up three of the stock turbos in 40 hours. Admittedly one of the failures was the result of deliberate failure mode testing. I'd been told that, while cheap, the stock turbo wasn't up to the application, and I wanted to know if this was true. It was.  I took her to 10,000' above the field and gave it full throttle - about 46 MAP. My theory was that I wanted to know where the limits were over a field in good weather, not later somewhere over Mississippi at night. By the way, the turbonetics manual suggests that you do about 1.5 hours gentle driving before - direct quote - "beating the crap out of it". I get the impression that they're built to withstand exactly that.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
John

On 8/12/2010 12:54 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
Bob,
 
   Now that I presume you have put several hours on your 13B/Turbo installation I would
like to ask a few performance questions............I have been going through compressor
maps from "Turbonetics" and was wondering what boost numbers you are seeing at 
various rpm's and altitudes from your 60-1 turbo.............I am looking at the TO-4E with
trims from 50 to 60 and of course your 60-1.............Several of these turbo's would do
a reasonable job but I would prefer to chose one that will be most efficient at  about a
maximum 5 lbs or less boost (1.35 pressure ratio) and at the lowest turbine rpm..........
 
  I probably will not find one that is perfect but will try to pick the best compromise from
the choices.............John Slade if you read this would appreceiate some of the same
info on your TO4E-50 as I believe you have the most hours on this Turbo...........
 
  Bob I realize that you have the 1.15 a/r turbine housing (which I lean toward to avoid
overspeed at oxygen altitude)  and John you have the .96 a/r housing for moderate
altitude.............Another factor is if the propeller pitch is fixed or adjustable.........I have
a inflight adjust "IVO" as does John Slade and I do not recall what you have Bob.........
 
Thanks in Advance,    
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, April 23, 2010 1:49:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area

My turbo is a Turbonetics 60-1 compressor trim, with 1.15 A/R divided tang, oil to bearings, and water cooled.  See the following link.

 

http://www.agpturbo.com/product.php?productid=16138&cat=252&page=1  or the attached .pdf file (if it can be transmitted). 

 

Bob

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary engine aircraft in Dallas area

 

Bob,

  Curious as to the make,model, Compressor Trim and A/R of  the

Turbine housing of your Turbo ??...................

 

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


 


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