X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail.infosaic.com ([216.226.129.129] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4419208 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:57:14 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.226.129.129; envelope-from=tmann@n200lz.com Received: from [98.168.254.7] by mail.infosaic.com via HTTP; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 21:56:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----_SmarterMail_NextPart_1203158166170186 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 21:56:22 -0400 Subject: re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week From: "Thomas Mann" Reply-To: tmann@n200lz.com To: CC: Message-ID: <3a6a9a96d90e4f65b0734257ec6048d5@mail.infosaic.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_SmarterMail_NextPart_1203158166170186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, Bill & All,=0D=0A=0D=0AThis is not an endorsement.=0D=0ASomeone sai= d they were looking and I just pointed out where they can be found.=0D=0A= =0D=0AEveryone can make theor own choices. I make no reccomendations=0D=0A= =0D=0AT Mann=0D=0A=0D=0A----------------------------------------=0D=0A=0D= =0AFrom: "George Lendich" =0D=0ASent: Wednesday, Augu= st 04, 2010 8:24 PM=0D=0ATo: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =0D=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week =0D=0A=0D=0A Thom= as and all, =0D=0AI have seen X-treme/ Guru parts before - very nice produc= ts, however I wonder how the aluminium end housings surface stand-up to Avi= ation use ( constant high RPM). Only a test of the products would demonstra= te that. Considering Powersport and Mistral tried all surface treatments kn= own to man and they all failed, mainly because of sub-strate failure, I wil= l leave the decision on that up to the reader. =0D=0A =0D=0APersonally I c= an't afford to waste that sort of money on testing. =0D=0A =0D=0AMind you = I'm not running X-treme's products down, their an Aussie company and I wish= them all the best and in their particular market their doing very well. Th= e products for drag racing and street rod are all very good/ excellent prod= ucts. =0D=0A =0D=0AIf you read the info on rotoryengine.com and X-treme, y= ou will see that there are some improvements ( many improvements) which can= be had for the rotary. Certainly any mass produced engine can benefit from= such improvements. =0D=0A =0D=0AHowever I like the way Bill Jepson is goi= ng, he won't jump into any project that isn't worth it's merit, even if he = has to take it slower and make it all that much better. Getting it right th= e first time takes a lot of effort. =0D=0AMy opinion for what it's worth. = =0D=0AGeorge =0D=0AI think this was for me (Tom). Bruce T. has built a lot = of engines for aircraft which is why I consider his a good source of info h= ere. He built Tracy's 20B if I remember correctly.=0D=0A=0D=0AThe price quo= ted was $5800.00 CAD. He suggested I keep my current center iron if it's in= good shape otherwise he would buy it from me if I insisted on an aluminum = version.=0D=0AThe link to the center housing is here:=0D=0Ahttp://www.rotar= yengine.com/services/aluminumhouse.htm=0D=0A=0D=0AI believe the other side = housings and rotor housings originate from Xtreme Rotaries out of Australia= .=0D=0Ahttp://xtremerotaries.com/index.php=0D=0A=0D=0AI saw a 13B assembled= keg that weighed in at 109 lbs on the Mazda Trix site (http://www.mazdatri= x.com/ENGPARTRACE.HTM) =0D=0AI don't know what the total weight savings wor= ked out to but that is fairly impressive.=0D=0A=0D=0AI would not consider a= luminum to be a good choice for a turbo application. In my case I'm going N= /A anyway.=0D=0A=0D=0A----------------------------------------=0D=0A=0D=0AF= rom: wrjjrs@aol.com=0D=0ASent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:20 PM=0D=0ATo: "R= otary motors in aircraft" =0D=0ASubject: [FlyR= otary] Re: Bad rotary week =0D=0A=0D=0ABruce,=0D=0AIf you can find the alum= inum 20B intermediate housing anywhere please let me know who is making it.= The price for the STOCK cast iron 20B intermediate housing has gone to abo= ut $5000.00 on the retail market. I know, Steve and I have been trying to b= uy one! The stock 20 B intermediate housing weighs 49 pounds! The side hous= ings George was mentioning were custom lightweight housings made in steel t= hat weigh about 1 pound more than the all aluminum housings IE. in a 2 roto= r they would be about 3 pounds over the all aluminum parts. The advantage i= s that you can gas nitride them just like the stock parts. None of the avai= lable aluminum housings has ever been run in a long term high-output engine= . The Factory Mazda 26B 4 rotor Le Mans engine used aluminum sideplates wit= h an exotic detonation gun applied ceramic coating. No one has reproduced t= hose housings for sale. To my knowledge none of our flying rotaries has use= d the Racing Beat housings, which are available only for the 13B and are VE= RY pricey. They also have been notorious for extending delivery times on th= ose housings. =0D=0ABill Jepson =0D=0A=0D=0A-----Original Message-----=0D= =0AFrom: Thomas Mann =0D=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft = =0D=0ASent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 3:02 pm=0D=0ASubj= ect: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week=0D=0A=0D=0AThe Aluminum rotor housings= will save you 15 lbs each.=0D=0AI'm not sure how much (in weight) the Alum= inum side housings will save you but they are available as well.=0D=0A=0D= =0AThe 20B Center Housing can be had (in aluminum) as well but it is a bit = pricey at $5K +.=0D=0A=0D=0AAll available through www.rotaryengine.com=0D= =0A=0D=0ABruce T. put me on to them.=0D=0A=0D=0A---------------------------= -------------=0D=0A=0D=0AFrom: wrjjrs@aol.com=0D=0ASent: Tuesday, August 03= , 2010 4:36 PM=0D=0ATo: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =0D=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week =0D=0A=0D=0AThomas Geo= rge was speaking of the side plates/intermed housings.=0D=0ABill Jepson=0D= =0A=0D=0A-----Original Message-----=0D=0AFrom: Thomas Mann =0D=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0D=0ASe= nt: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 1:33 pm=0D=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week= =0D=0A=0D=0A ..... or go with the aluminum housings already P-Ported. It sa= ves 15 lbs per rotor.=0D=0A=0D=0A----------------------------------------= =0D=0A=0D=0AFrom: Dwayne Parkinson =0D=0ASent: T= uesday, August 03, 2010 3:20 PM=0D=0ATo: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =0D=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week =0D= =0A=0D=0ALightweight carbon steel housings? Where exactly do I find those?= =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A ------_SmarterMail_NextPart_1203158166170186 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, Bill & All,

This is not an endorsement.
Someone said = they were looking and I just pointed out where they can be found.

Ev= eryone can make theor own choices. I make no reccomendations

T Mann<= br>
=0D=0A
=0D=0AFrom: "George Lendich" <lend= ich@aanet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:24 PM
= To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= br>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

=0D=0A Thomas and all,=0D=0A
<= font face=3DArial size=3D2>I have seen X-treme/ Guru parts before - ve= ry nice products, however I wonder how the aluminium end housings surface s= tand-up to Aviation use ( constant high RPM). Only a test of the products w= ould demonstrate that. Considering Powersport and Mistral tried all surface= treatments known to man and they all failed, mainly because of sub-st= rate failure, I will leave the decision on that up to the reader.=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A
Personally I can't afford to waste that sort of mo= ney on testing.
=0D=0A
&= nbsp;
=0D=0A
Mind you I'm not running = X-treme's products down, their an Aussie company and I wish them all the be= st and in their particular market their doing very well. The products for d= rag racing and street rod are all very good/ excellent products.
=0D=0A
 
=0D=0AIf you read the info on rotoryengine.com and X= -treme, you will see that there are some improvements ( many improvements) = which can be had for the rotary. Certainly any mass produced engine can ben= efit from such improvements.
=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A
However I li= ke the way Bill Jepson is going, he won't jump into any project that isn't = worth it's merit, even if he has to take it slower and make it all that muc= h better. Getting it right the first time takes a lot of effort.
=0D=0A
My opinion for what it's wort= h.
=0D=0A
George
= =0D=0A
I think this wa= s for me (Tom). Bruce T. has built a lot of engines for aircraft which is w= hy I consider his a good source of info here. He built Tracy's 20B if I rem= ember correctly.

The price quoted was $5800.00 CAD. He suggested I k= eep my current center iron if it's in good shape otherwise he would buy it = from me if I insisted on an aluminum version.
The link to the center hou= sing is here:
http://www.rotaryengine.com/services/aluminumhouse.htm

= I believe the other side housings and rotor housings originate from Xtreme = Rotaries out of Australia.
http://xtremerotaries.com/index.php

I saw a 13B assembled keg= that weighed in at 109 lbs on the Mazda Trix site (http://www.mazdatrix.com/ENGPARTRACE.HTM= )
I don't know what the total weight savings worked out to but that= is fairly impressive.

I would not consider aluminum to be a good ch= oice for a turbo application. In my case I'm going N/A anyway.

=0D=0A
=0D=0AFrom: wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Tuesda= y, August 03, 2010 7:20 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary= week

=0D=0A
Br= uce,
=0D=0A
If you can find the aluminum 20B intermediate housing = anywhere please let me know who is making it. The price for the STOCK cast = iron 20B intermediate housing has gone to about $5000.00 on the retail mark= et. I know, Steve and I have been trying to buy one! The stock 20 B interme= diate housing weighs 49 pounds! The side housings George was mentioning wer= e custom lightweight housings made in steel that weigh about 1 pound more t= han the all aluminum housings IE. in a 2 rotor they would be about 3 pounds= over the all aluminum parts. The advantage is that you can gas nitrid= e them just like the stock parts. None of the available aluminum housings h= as ever been run in a long term high-output engine. The Factory Mazda 26B 4= rotor Le Mans engine used aluminum sideplates with an exotic det= onation gun applied ceramic coating. No one has reproduced those housi= ngs for sale. To my knowledge none of our flying rotaries has used the Raci= ng Beat housings, which are available only for the 13B and are VERY pricey.= They also have been notorious for extending delivery times on those housin= gs.
=0D=0A
Bill Jepson  

=0D=0A


=0D=0A
-----Original Message-----
From: Th= omas Mann <tmann@n200lz.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 3:02 pm
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

=0D=0A
The Aluminum rotor housings will save you 15 = lbs each.
I'm not sure how much (in weight) the Aluminum side housings w= ill save you but they are available as well.

The 20B Center Housing = can be had (in aluminum) as well but it is a bit pricey at $5K +.

Al= l available through www.rotaryengine.com

Bruce T. put me on to them.

=0D=0A
=0D=0AFrom: wrj= jrs@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:36 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Bad rotary week

=0D=0A
Thomas George was speaking of the side plates/intermed housings= .
=0D=0A
Bill Jepson

=0D=0A


=0D=0A
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Mann <tmann@n200lz.com>
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

=0D=0A
 ..... or go with the aluminum housings = already P-Ported. It saves 15 lbs per rotor.

=0D=0A
=0D=0AFrom: Dwayne Parkinson <dwayneparkinson@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, Augus= t 03, 2010 3:20 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

=0D=0A#AOLMsgPart_2_d9da7c82-5c85-41bf-87d9-0e6e5a41ed4c TD {=0D= =0A COLOR: black=0D=0A}=0D=0A#AOLMsgPart_2_d9da7c82-5c85-41bf-87d9-0e6e5a41= ed4c #AOLMsgPart_2_899ad010-1a93-41d0-bbdf-96171965134e TD {=0D=0A COLOR: b= lack=0D=0A}=0D=0A#AOLMsgPart_2_d9da7c82-5c85-41bf-87d9-0e6e5a41ed4c #AOLMsg= Part_2_899ad010-1a93-41d0-bbdf-96171965134e DIV {=0D=0A MARGIN: 0px=0D=0A}= =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A
=0D=0A
Lightweight carbon steel housings? &nbs= p;Where exactly do I find those?
=0D=0A

 



------_SmarterMail_NextPart_1203158166170186--