X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4418728 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 14:15:19 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.123; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 46470 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Aug 2010 18:14:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1280945685; bh=tP+72+CqXOVbjQlMBejJ7+MAo+Vubl0Tzb6jdmfZwcI=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ObmJjE8CA5wYxYPFqPIRxrmc1Q95JskRKTmGWq8b97KyiTB5lrxX2P6ZnqxQwmC/p+IBF7yTPK8uNLkn7nmc/WnxBFEB6jwzs2du8SVzRaHLS74n7wO+BvjuWNmE1sQnrQU/cJ8Bxpk1wMqoNcQjVjXHFqx5Kjw3Ifch6073ZKQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=06MU7MhVOzdbButuxSDizhHceVsySdHjtrEX4+DkzbP1qOL+KvwgnLj07D0vM4GcvasTJAgy3UY2a6ZgD9Wy3Hsv+u9ZglN6wvOopnFB1EGF8PvMwfFJ2nrp9ao2d40eNzXeMAsWcZ41BJnQdJ6w+w590DWTHc1WkjWHg3xJsDg=; Message-ID: <151696.44865.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: FVLXHmsVM1mUdEDHkQe0bSZtpFVgN44LULkkHuQ2zJgMpdl LgF4QTGE_rlW_gaLGcJhfbjo5auhN339uXF3X7FhB_lD.0uTAVzqK4pKWztu 7t5f01eObL5OxaXVwVFXDkzyS.yfPh3joMBc0moY3iA.30SKukdT0jcjzgL6 C90Wsge_XyylKUaTuL2qqz9_LUsJTkTOuWnsF2lLXcnvXoo2OoftU..5IV8Z 6_3LRcfXtY.ItOmbmxZt6YUasLf3NOn12wChM6kTnNDuW8yGWG9LDx5k0qOg 5.pHNs7HgaPEV_JfvSUsGaZiwN6TxWaaPhCY4qHCNVrNtnygg8oUI.khgl_G vhQGH4yHjEK7vATwixutxsCt546b4dcscMI7ZGiocUI3s Received: from [208.114.40.214] by web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 11:14:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/420.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:14:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Good rotary week To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1255955710-1280945684=:44865" --0-1255955710-1280945684=:44865 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill,=0A=A0I am in total agreement !!.............Pulling for your developm= ent of the =0Asteel housings !!...............=0A=A0Kelly Troyer=0A"Dyke De= lta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manif= old =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "WRJJRS@aol.com= " =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wed, August 4, 2010 1:23:47 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Goo= d rotary week=0A=0ABobby,=0AThere are many parts available to the drag raci= ng crowd that are intended for =0Ashort time use. One guy even built nearly= solid aluminum rotors. These parts are =0Alike the Top Fueler engine block= s that don't even have water jackets built into =0Athem. When you are only = running the engine for less than a minute you can get =0Aaway with a lot of= things. When Steve Beckham and Everett Hatch were doing their =0Ainitial e= xperiments for their superlite engine they tried all types of available =0A= aluminum side housings and coatings. None of them held up long term. They t= ried =0Aplating, plasma spray, high alusil aluminum (Vega block material), = ceramic =0Acoatings, and several others before staying with iron housings o= n the engine =0Athey intended for production. The last thing was a built up= steel housing =0Aconsiderably lightened from the iron versions. This was w= orking but the company =0Awas sold after Everett's death and wasn't develop= ed further. Their engines were =0Aalso all p-port so they didn't bother to = build in any side ports. There used to =0Abe a bunch of people that would s= ay that car engines weren't up to producing =0A60-100% power like and aircr= aft engine must. That was shown to be untrue with =0Athe rotary as it will = run high Rpm's forever IF it has good cooling and oil =0Asupply. These thin= gs are critical however, and don't take care of themselves. =0ACareful radi= ator duct design and oil cooler duct design just must be done. The =0Athing= to remember here is that is isn't simply making enough horsepower, that = =0Aisn't too tough. The thing to remember is that you are preparing an engi= ne that =0Amight be running on a 500 mile long straight-away! A great many = of the car =0Atuners realize that their engines will rarely see operation a= bove 20% and then =0Aonly see WOT for less than a minute. I'm an ex racer m= yself and can't think of =0Aone track other than Le Mans where the car woul= d be flat out for more than 20-30 =0Aseconds. Many aircraft operating above= 8,000 feet run WOT ALL=A0THE TIME=A0and just =0Avary prop and mixture to c= ontrol power. The engine MUST have good water cooling. =0AThe engine MUST h= ave good oil cooling, if it is going to survive.=A0I don't see =0Ahow you a= re going to achieve that with a hunk of aluminum billet and a plating =0Ajo= b. I would love to be proven wrong, but I won't hold my breath.=0ABill Jeps= on=0A=0AIn a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bhugh= es@qnsi.net =0Awrites:=0ABill,=0A>=A0=0A>Here's another billet center housi= ng.=A0 Very little info provided. =0A>=A0=0A>http://www.hspnnews.com/index.= php/article/new_turbosmart_20b_billet_center_plate/=0A>=0A>=A0=0A>http://ww= w.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=3D283=0A>=A0=0A>Bobby=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A___= _____________________________=0AFrom: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fly= rotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf =0AOf wrjjrs@aol.com=0A>Sent: Tuesday, = August 03, 2010 7:30 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Bad rotary week=0A>=0A>Sorry to double up here but while the site= indicates that they have an all =0A>aluminum housing, have they got any ru= n time on it? I hate to be skeptical, but =0A>even the RB housings, which c= ertainly exist, have been holy grail level of =0A>scarcity. We need to see = some hour long 70% dyno runs on these things before we =0A>even consider us= ing them in an airplane.=0A>Bill=0A>=0A --0-1255955710-1280945684=:44865 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Bill,
=0A
 I am in total agreement !!= .............Pulling for your development of the steel housings !!.........= ......
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RW= S"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

=0A=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: "WRJJRS@aol.com" <WRJJRS@aol.co= m>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 1:23:47 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Good rotary w= eek

=0A
=0A
Bobby,
=0A
There are many parts available to= the drag racing crowd that are intended for short time use. One guy even b= uilt nearly solid aluminum rotors. These parts are like the Top Fueler engi= ne blocks that don't even have water jackets built into them. When you are = only running the engine for less than a minute you can get away with a lot = of things. When Steve Beckham and Everett Hatch were doing their initial ex= periments for their superlite engine they tried all types of available alum= inum side housings and coatings. None of them held up long term. They tried= plating, plasma spray, high alusil aluminum (Vega block material), ceramic= coatings, and several others before staying with iron housings on the engi= ne they intended for production. The last thing was a built up steel housin= g considerably lightened from the iron versions. This was working but the c= ompany was sold after Everett's death and wasn't developed further. Their e= ngines were also all p-port so they didn't bother to build in any side ports. There used to be a bunch of= people that would say that car engines weren't up to producing 60-100% pow= er like and aircraft engine must. That was shown to be untrue with the rota= ry as it will run high Rpm's forever IF it has good cooling and oil supply.= These things are critical however, and don't take care of themselves. Care= ful radiator duct design and oil cooler duct design just must be done. The = thing to remember here is that is isn't simply making enough horsepower, th= at isn't too tough. The thing to remember is that you are preparing an engi= ne that might be running on a 500 mile long straight-away! A great many of = the car tuners realize that their engines will rarely see operation above 2= 0% and then only see WOT for less than a minute. I'm an ex racer myself and= can't think of one track other than Le Mans where the car would be flat ou= t for more than 20-30 seconds. Many aircraft operating above 8,000 feet run WOT ALL THE TIME and just vary prop and mixture to cont= rol power. The engine MUST have good water cooling. The engine MUST have go= od oil cooling, if it is going to survive. I don't see how you are goi= ng to achieve that with a hunk of aluminum billet and a plating job. I woul= d love to be proven wrong, but I won't hold my breath.
=0A
Bill Je= pson
=0A
 
=0A
In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:39 P= M Pacific Daylight Time, bhughes@qnsi.net writes:
=0A
=0A
Bill,
=0A
 
=0A
Here's another billet center housing.  Very little info provided= .
=0A
 =
=0A
http://www.hspnnews.com/index.php/ar= ticle/new_turbosmart_20b_billet_center_plate/
=0A
 
=0A
http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id= =3D283
=0A
=  
=0A
Bobby
=0A

=0A=
=0A=0AFrom: Rotary motors = in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs= @aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:30 PM
To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week
=0A
= =0A
Sorry to double up here= but while the site indicates that they have an all aluminum housing, have = they got any run time on it? I hate to be skeptical, but even the RB housin= gs, which certainly exist, have been holy grail level of scarcity. We need = to see some hour long 70% dyno runs on these things before we even consider= using them in an airplane.
=0A
Bill
=0A
=0A
 
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